Text 11702, 279 rader
Skriven 2006-06-19 22:52:08 av Geo (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 11696 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: PCI hardware ID
===========================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>
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Rich,
I didn't say there weren't a dozen different excuses for why things are = the
way they are now. I just think it's wrong to perpetuate the = mistakes by
supporting what is obviously the wrong way to do things. = Look at how much
lame hardware NT cleaned up. That's because it didn't = allow the level of
"cheating" that DOS and Win9x did, it enforced the = rules better and we are
better off now.
Same thing should happen with all the other cases where past mistakes = have
created a situation that the computer must guess. Break the damn = websites
that aren't working right, enforce strict file types for text = files. Stop
accepting the excuses that it MUST guess to be compatible = and enforce some
rules.
Things have a habit of getting real complicated all by themselves, we = don't
need to be helping confusion get a grip on our computer = environments. Just
because some programmer decided he CAN divide by zero = doesn't mean every
programmer should now support that till the end of = time.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:449720d7@w3.nls.net...
Two different issues. IE has to apply heuristics to file types =
because the servers that return this content often return bogus, both =
incorrect or invalid, types. It's not easy to fix. IE had to do this =
because netscape didn't enforce types and to be compatible IE couldn't =
either. Because the types aren't enforced lots of servers still do this =
wrong. Because they do types can't be enforced.
Text and Unicode is first a false distinction. It's all text. In =
the case of Notepad, you mean UTF-16 text vs. UTF-8 text vs. ANSI text = as
this is the distinction that Notepad makes on load. Even that misses = the
complexity as what people call ANSI is actually any of 14 distinct = and
incompatible ANSI encodings and is often one of many OEM encodings = which may
be distinct from any of the ANSI ones. It is complicated = because for many of
the ANSI encodings including the one used in the = U.S. and Western Europe,
anything could be valid. Because of this it is = not always possible to make a
distinction between UTF-16 and ANSI as a = file could validly be either. UTF-8
is restrictive so it is easy to = tell if something is valid UTF-8. That could
still be a problem as = valid UTF-8 could be valid ANSI too. Instead some
heuristics are = applied. For example if you see 0D 00 0A 00 then the file is
probably = UTF-16 while if you see 0D 0A it may be ANSI though U+0A0D might be
a = valid Unicode character. I didn't look.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:449444fd$2@w3.nls.net...
That's not what I meant when I said computers today guess. I meant =
how
computers today guess at the answer when the problem doesn't have a =
unique
solution. Example would be how IE guesses file types or how notepad =
guesses
between text and unicode.
Geo.
"Antti Kurenniemi" <NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com> wrote in message
news:449392b8$1@w3.nls.net...
> It was equally bad having people guess things. "I'll switch this =
dip here
> and that there, and then those jumpers that I just dropped and =
have no
clue
> about where they should go... I'll just make a neat row of them =
here,
> that'll do it". I remember a lot of hardware having huge manuals =
for just
> configuring the stupid dip switches and whatnots, and that it was =
possible
> to fry things by misconfiguring them. No thanks to that - =
nowadays, at
least
> you don't have to get your hands dirty to break your computer <g>
>
>
> Antti Kurenniemi
>
> "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:44938e6a$2@w3.nls.net...
> I kind of prefer the days when computers didn't "guess" at things. =
We used
> to have a saying "computers don't make mistakes" but all that =
changed
now..
>
> Geo.
> "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:4493558b$1@w3.nls.net...
> You don't expect a mainframe to automatically detect any off =
the
shelf
> adapter that is plugged in. The PC could go back to the dark ages =
too as
> this is how things used to be when the PC first came to be.
>
> Rich
>
>
>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I didn't say there weren't a dozen =
different=20
excuses for why things are the way they are now. I just think it's =
wrong=20
to perpetuate the mistakes by supporting what is obviously the wrong way = to
do=20
things. Look at how much lame hardware NT cleaned up. That's because it =
didn't=20
allow the level of "cheating" that DOS and Win9x did, it enforced the =
rules=20
better and we are better off now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Same thing should happen with all the =
other cases=20
where past mistakes have created a situation that the computer must = guess.
Break=20
the damn websites that aren't working right, enforce strict file types = for
text=20
files. Stop accepting the excuses that it MUST guess to be compatible = and=20
enforce some rules.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Things have a habit of getting real =
complicated all=20
by themselves, we don't need to be helping confusion get a grip on our =
computer=20
environments. Just because some programmer decided he CAN divide by zero =
doesn't=20
mean every programmer should now support that till the end of =
time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:449720d7@w3.nls.net">news:449720d7@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Two different =
issues. IE has=20
to apply heuristics to file types because the servers that return this =
content=20
often return bogus, both incorrect or invalid, types. It's not =
easy to=20
fix. IE had to do this because netscape didn't enforce types and =
to be=20
compatible IE couldn't either. Because the types aren't enforced =
lots of=20
servers still do this wrong. Because they do types can't be=20
enforced.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Text and Unicode is =
first a false=20
distinction. It's all text. In the case of Notepad, you =
mean=20
UTF-16 text vs. UTF-8 text vs. ANSI text as this is the =
distinction that=20
Notepad makes on load. Even that misses the complexity as what =
people=20
call ANSI is actually any of 14 distinct and incompatible ANSI =
encodings and=20
is often one of many OEM encodings which may be distinct from any of =
the ANSI=20
ones. It is complicated because for many of the ANSI encodings =
including=20
the one used in the U.S. and Western Europe, anything could be =
valid. =20
Because of this it is not always possible to make a distinction =
between UTF-16=20
and ANSI as a file could validly be either. UTF-8 is restrictive =
so it=20
is easy to tell if something is valid UTF-8. That could still be =
a=20
problem as valid UTF-8 could be valid ANSI too. Instead some =
heuristics=20
are applied. For example if you see 0D 00 0A 00 then the file is =
probably UTF-16 while if you see 0D 0A it may be ANSI though U+0A0D =
might be a=20
valid Unicode character. I didn't look.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:449444fd$2@w3.nls.net">news:449444fd$2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>That's=20
not what I meant when I said computers today guess. I meant =
how<BR>computers=20
today guess at the answer when the problem doesn't have a=20
unique<BR>solution. Example would be how IE guesses file types or =
how=20
notepad guesses<BR>between text and =
unicode.<BR><BR>Geo.<BR><BR>"Antti=20
Kurenniemi" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com">NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com=
</A>>=20
wrote in message<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"news:449392b8$1@w3.nls.net">news:449392b8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
>=20
It was equally bad having people guess things. "I'll switch this dip =
here<BR>> and that there, and then those jumpers that I just =
dropped and=20
have no<BR>clue<BR>> about where they should go... I'll just make =
a neat=20
row of them here,<BR>> that'll do it". I remember a lot of =
hardware=20
having huge manuals for just<BR>> configuring the stupid dip =
switches and=20
whatnots, and that it was possible<BR>> to fry things by =
misconfiguring=20
them. No thanks to that - nowadays, at<BR>least<BR>> you don't =
have to=20
get your hands dirty to break your computer=20
<g><BR>><BR>><BR>> Antti Kurenniemi<BR>><BR>> =
"Geo"=20
<<A href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote =
in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:44938e6a$2@w3.nls.net">news:44938e6a$2@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
>=20
I kind of prefer the days when computers didn't "guess" at things. =
We=20
used<BR>> to have a saying "computers don't make mistakes" but =
all that=20
changed<BR>now..<BR>><BR>> Geo.<BR>> "Rich" =
<@>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:4493558b$1@w3.nls.net">news:4493558b$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
> =20
You don't expect a mainframe to automatically detect any off=20
the<BR>shelf<BR>> adapter that is plugged in. The PC could =
go back=20
to the dark ages too as<BR>> this is how things used to be when =
the PC=20
first came to be.<BR>><BR>> =20
=
Rich<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HT=
ML>
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