Text 11709, 315 rader
Skriven 2006-06-21 11:44:54 av Rich (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 11702 av Geo (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: PCI hardware ID
===========================
From: "Rich" <@>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Users can't see why something doesn't work but do see that it =
doesn't. If you want clients to enforce the types returned by the = sittes you
should start by getting sites to return correct info. You = could do this on
your own. Write or grab a crawler and start crawling = the internet. Send
email to the webmasters for any sites with mistakes. =
Good luck.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:449764b9@w3.nls.net...
Rich,
I didn't say there weren't a dozen different excuses for why things =
are the way they are now. I just think it's wrong to perpetuate the = mistakes
by supporting what is obviously the wrong way to do things. = Look at how much
lame hardware NT cleaned up. That's because it didn't = allow the level of
"cheating" that DOS and Win9x did, it enforced the = rules better and we are
better off now.
Same thing should happen with all the other cases where past mistakes =
have created a situation that the computer must guess. Break the damn =
websites that aren't working right, enforce strict file types for text = files.
Stop accepting the excuses that it MUST guess to be compatible = and enforce
some rules.
Things have a habit of getting real complicated all by themselves, we =
don't need to be helping confusion get a grip on our computer = environments.
Just because some programmer decided he CAN divide by zero = doesn't mean every
programmer should now support that till the end of = time.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:449720d7@w3.nls.net...
Two different issues. IE has to apply heuristics to file types =
because the servers that return this content often return bogus, both =
incorrect or invalid, types. It's not easy to fix. IE had to do this =
because netscape didn't enforce types and to be compatible IE couldn't =
either. Because the types aren't enforced lots of servers still do this =
wrong. Because they do types can't be enforced.
Text and Unicode is first a false distinction. It's all text. =
In the case of Notepad, you mean UTF-16 text vs. UTF-8 text vs. ANSI = text as
this is the distinction that Notepad makes on load. Even that = misses the
complexity as what people call ANSI is actually any of 14 = distinct and
incompatible ANSI encodings and is often one of many OEM = encodings which may
be distinct from any of the ANSI ones. It is = complicated because for many of
the ANSI encodings including the one = used in the U.S. and Western Europe,
anything could be valid. Because = of this it is not always possible to make a
distinction between UTF-16 = and ANSI as a file could validly be either. UTF-8
is restrictive so it = is easy to tell if something is valid UTF-8. That could
still be a = problem as valid UTF-8 could be valid ANSI too. Instead some
heuristics = are applied. For example if you see 0D 00 0A 00 then the file is
= probably UTF-16 while if you see 0D 0A it may be ANSI though U+0A0D = might
be a valid Unicode character. I didn't look.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:449444fd$2@w3.nls.net...
That's not what I meant when I said computers today guess. I meant =
how
computers today guess at the answer when the problem doesn't have =
a unique
solution. Example would be how IE guesses file types or how =
notepad guesses
between text and unicode.
Geo.
"Antti Kurenniemi" <NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com> wrote in message
news:449392b8$1@w3.nls.net...
> It was equally bad having people guess things. "I'll switch this =
dip here
> and that there, and then those jumpers that I just dropped and =
have no
clue
> about where they should go... I'll just make a neat row of them =
here,
> that'll do it". I remember a lot of hardware having huge manuals =
for just
> configuring the stupid dip switches and whatnots, and that it =
was possible
> to fry things by misconfiguring them. No thanks to that - =
nowadays, at
least
> you don't have to get your hands dirty to break your computer =
<g>
>
>
> Antti Kurenniemi
>
> "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:44938e6a$2@w3.nls.net...
> I kind of prefer the days when computers didn't "guess" at =
things. We used
> to have a saying "computers don't make mistakes" but all that =
changed
now..
>
> Geo.
> "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:4493558b$1@w3.nls.net...
> You don't expect a mainframe to automatically detect any =
off the
shelf
> adapter that is plugged in. The PC could go back to the dark =
ages too as
> this is how things used to be when the PC first came to be.
>
> Rich
>
>
>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Users can't see why =
something doesn't=20
work but do see that it doesn't. If you want clients to enforce = the
types=20
returned by the sittes you should start by getting sites to return = correct=20
info. You could do this on your own. Write or grab a crawler =
and=20
start crawling the internet. Send email to the webmasters for any =
sites=20
with mistakes. Good luck.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:449764b9@w3.nls.net">news:449764b9@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I didn't say there weren't a dozen =
different=20
excuses for why things are the way they are now. I just think =
it's wrong=20
to perpetuate the mistakes by supporting what is obviously the wrong =
way to do=20
things. Look at how much lame hardware NT cleaned up. That's because =
it didn't=20
allow the level of "cheating" that DOS and Win9x did, it enforced the =
rules=20
better and we are better off now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Same thing should happen with all the =
other cases=20
where past mistakes have created a situation that the computer must =
guess.=20
Break the damn websites that aren't working right, enforce strict file =
types=20
for text files. Stop accepting the excuses that it MUST guess to be =
compatible=20
and enforce some rules.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Things have a habit of getting real =
complicated=20
all by themselves, we don't need to be helping confusion get a grip on =
our=20
computer environments. Just because some programmer decided he CAN =
divide by=20
zero doesn't mean every programmer should now support that till the =
end of=20
time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:449720d7@w3.nls.net">news:449720d7@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Two different =
issues. IE has=20
to apply heuristics to file types because the servers that return =
this=20
content often return bogus, both incorrect or invalid, types. =
It's not=20
easy to fix. IE had to do this because netscape didn't enforce =
types=20
and to be compatible IE couldn't either. Because the types =
aren't=20
enforced lots of servers still do this wrong. Because they do =
types=20
can't be enforced.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Text and Unicode is =
first a false=20
distinction. It's all text. In the case of Notepad, you =
mean=20
UTF-16 text vs. UTF-8 text vs. ANSI text as this is the =
distinction=20
that Notepad makes on load. Even that misses the complexity as =
what=20
people call ANSI is actually any of 14 distinct and incompatible =
ANSI=20
encodings and is often one of many OEM encodings which may be =
distinct from=20
any of the ANSI ones. It is complicated because for many of =
the ANSI=20
encodings including the one used in the U.S. and Western Europe, =
anything=20
could be valid. Because of this it is not always possible to =
make a=20
distinction between UTF-16 and ANSI as a file could validly be =
either. =20
UTF-8 is restrictive so it is easy to tell if something is valid=20
UTF-8. That could still be a problem as valid UTF-8 could be =
valid=20
ANSI too. Instead some heuristics are applied. For =
example if=20
you see 0D 00 0A 00 then the file is probably UTF-16 while if you =
see 0D 0A=20
it may be ANSI though U+0A0D might be a valid Unicode =
character. I=20
didn't look.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:449444fd$2@w3.nls.net">news:449444fd$2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>That's=20
not what I meant when I said computers today guess. I meant=20
how<BR>computers today guess at the answer when the problem =
doesn't have a=20
unique<BR>solution. Example would be how IE guesses file types or =
how=20
notepad guesses<BR>between text and =
unicode.<BR><BR>Geo.<BR><BR>"Antti=20
Kurenniemi" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com">NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com=
</A>>=20
wrote in message<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"news:449392b8$1@w3.nls.net">news:449392b8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
>=20
It was equally bad having people guess things. "I'll switch this =
dip=20
here<BR>> and that there, and then those jumpers that I just =
dropped=20
and have no<BR>clue<BR>> about where they should go... I'll =
just make a=20
neat row of them here,<BR>> that'll do it". I remember a lot of =
hardware having huge manuals for just<BR>> configuring the =
stupid dip=20
switches and whatnots, and that it was possible<BR>> to fry =
things by=20
misconfiguring them. No thanks to that - nowadays, =
at<BR>least<BR>> you=20
don't have to get your hands dirty to break your computer=20
<g><BR>><BR>><BR>> Antti Kurenniemi<BR>><BR>> =
"Geo"=20
<<A href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:44938e6a$2@w3.nls.net">news:44938e6a$2@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
>=20
I kind of prefer the days when computers didn't "guess" at things. =
We=20
used<BR>> to have a saying "computers don't make mistakes" but =
all that=20
changed<BR>now..<BR>><BR>> Geo.<BR>> "Rich" =
<@>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:4493558b$1@w3.nls.net">news:4493558b$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
> =20
You don't expect a mainframe to automatically detect any off=20
the<BR>shelf<BR>> adapter that is plugged in. The PC =
could go=20
back to the dark ages too as<BR>> this is how things used to be =
when=20
the PC first came to be.<BR>><BR>> =20
=
Rich<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
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