Text 11774, 340 rader
Skriven 2006-06-23 21:18:36 av Geo (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 11709 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: PCI hardware ID
===========================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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It's really simple to do, you just put a "strict" meter on IE so that = users
can set it to very strict, pretty strict, somewhat strict, fuckit = make it
work. And then set pretty strict as the default. Now let the = websites explain
to users they have to set it to the fuckit setting.=20
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:449993de@w3.nls.net...
Users can't see why something doesn't work but do see that it =
doesn't. If you want clients to enforce the types returned by the = sittes you
should start by getting sites to return correct info. You = could do this on
your own. Write or grab a crawler and start crawling = the internet. Send
email to the webmasters for any sites with mistakes. =
Good luck.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:449764b9@w3.nls.net...
Rich,
I didn't say there weren't a dozen different excuses for why things =
are the way they are now. I just think it's wrong to perpetuate the = mistakes
by supporting what is obviously the wrong way to do things. = Look at how much
lame hardware NT cleaned up. That's because it didn't = allow the level of
"cheating" that DOS and Win9x did, it enforced the = rules better and we are
better off now.
Same thing should happen with all the other cases where past =
mistakes have created a situation that the computer must guess. Break = the
damn websites that aren't working right, enforce strict file types = for text
files. Stop accepting the excuses that it MUST guess to be = compatible and
enforce some rules.
Things have a habit of getting real complicated all by themselves, =
we don't need to be helping confusion get a grip on our computer =
environments. Just because some programmer decided he CAN divide by zero =
doesn't mean every programmer should now support that till the end of = time.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:449720d7@w3.nls.net...
Two different issues. IE has to apply heuristics to file types =
because the servers that return this content often return bogus, both =
incorrect or invalid, types. It's not easy to fix. IE had to do this =
because netscape didn't enforce types and to be compatible IE couldn't =
either. Because the types aren't enforced lots of servers still do this =
wrong. Because they do types can't be enforced.
Text and Unicode is first a false distinction. It's all text. =
In the case of Notepad, you mean UTF-16 text vs. UTF-8 text vs. ANSI = text as
this is the distinction that Notepad makes on load. Even that = misses the
complexity as what people call ANSI is actually any of 14 = distinct and
incompatible ANSI encodings and is often one of many OEM = encodings which may
be distinct from any of the ANSI ones. It is = complicated because for many of
the ANSI encodings including the one = used in the U.S. and Western Europe,
anything could be valid. Because = of this it is not always possible to make a
distinction between UTF-16 = and ANSI as a file could validly be either. UTF-8
is restrictive so it = is easy to tell if something is valid UTF-8. That could
still be a = problem as valid UTF-8 could be valid ANSI too. Instead some
heuristics = are applied. For example if you see 0D 00 0A 00 then the file is
= probably UTF-16 while if you see 0D 0A it may be ANSI though U+0A0D = might
be a valid Unicode character. I didn't look.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:449444fd$2@w3.nls.net...
That's not what I meant when I said computers today guess. I =
meant how
computers today guess at the answer when the problem doesn't =
have a unique
solution. Example would be how IE guesses file types or how =
notepad guesses
between text and unicode.
Geo.
"Antti Kurenniemi" <NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com> wrote in =
message
news:449392b8$1@w3.nls.net...
> It was equally bad having people guess things. "I'll switch =
this dip here
> and that there, and then those jumpers that I just dropped and =
have no
clue
> about where they should go... I'll just make a neat row of =
them here,
> that'll do it". I remember a lot of hardware having huge =
manuals for just
> configuring the stupid dip switches and whatnots, and that it =
was possible
> to fry things by misconfiguring them. No thanks to that - =
nowadays, at
least
> you don't have to get your hands dirty to break your computer =
<g>
>
>
> Antti Kurenniemi
>
> "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:44938e6a$2@w3.nls.net...
> I kind of prefer the days when computers didn't "guess" at =
things. We used
> to have a saying "computers don't make mistakes" but all that =
changed
now..
>
> Geo.
> "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:4493558b$1@w3.nls.net...
> You don't expect a mainframe to automatically detect any =
off the
shelf
> adapter that is plugged in. The PC could go back to the dark =
ages too as
> this is how things used to be when the PC first came to be.
>
> Rich
>
>
>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's really simple to do, you just put =
a "strict"=20
meter on IE so that users can set it to very strict, pretty strict, =
somewhat=20
strict, fuckit make it work. And then set pretty strict as the =
default. Now let the websites explain to users they have to set it to = the
fuckit=20
setting. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:449993de@w3.nls.net">news:449993de@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Users can't see why =
something=20
doesn't work but do see that it doesn't. If you want clients to =
enforce=20
the types returned by the sittes you should start by getting sites to =
return=20
correct info. You could do this on your own. Write or grab =
a=20
crawler and start crawling the internet. Send email to the =
webmasters=20
for any sites with mistakes. Good luck.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:449764b9@w3.nls.net">news:449764b9@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I didn't say there weren't a dozen =
different=20
excuses for why things are the way they are now. I just think =
it's=20
wrong to perpetuate the mistakes by supporting what is obviously the =
wrong=20
way to do things. Look at how much lame hardware NT cleaned up. =
That's=20
because it didn't allow the level of "cheating" that DOS and Win9x =
did, it=20
enforced the rules better and we are better off now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Same thing should happen with all =
the other=20
cases where past mistakes have created a situation that the computer =
must=20
guess. Break the damn websites that aren't working right, enforce =
strict=20
file types for text files. Stop accepting the excuses that it MUST =
guess to=20
be compatible and enforce some rules.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Things have a habit of getting real =
complicated=20
all by themselves, we don't need to be helping confusion get a grip =
on our=20
computer environments. Just because some programmer decided he CAN =
divide by=20
zero doesn't mean every programmer should now support that till the =
end of=20
time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:449720d7@w3.nls.net">news:449720d7@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Two different =
issues. IE=20
has to apply heuristics to file types because the servers that =
return this=20
content often return bogus, both incorrect or invalid, =
types. It's=20
not easy to fix. IE had to do this because netscape didn't =
enforce=20
types and to be compatible IE couldn't either. Because the =
types=20
aren't enforced lots of servers still do this wrong. Because =
they do=20
types can't be enforced.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Text and Unicode is =
first a=20
false distinction. It's all text. In the case of =
Notepad, you=20
mean UTF-16 text vs. UTF-8 text vs. ANSI text as this is the=20
distinction that Notepad makes on load. Even that misses the =
complexity as what people call ANSI is actually any of 14 distinct =
and=20
incompatible ANSI encodings and is often one of many OEM encodings =
which=20
may be distinct from any of the ANSI ones. It is complicated =
because=20
for many of the ANSI encodings including the one used in the U.S. =
and=20
Western Europe, anything could be valid. Because of this it =
is not=20
always possible to make a distinction between UTF-16 and ANSI as a =
file=20
could validly be either. UTF-8 is restrictive so it is easy =
to tell=20
if something is valid UTF-8. That could still be a problem =
as valid=20
UTF-8 could be valid ANSI too. Instead some heuristics are=20
applied. For example if you see 0D 00 0A 00 then the file is =
probably UTF-16 while if you see 0D 0A it may be ANSI though =
U+0A0D might=20
be a valid Unicode character. I didn't look.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:449444fd$2@w3.nls.net">news:449444fd$2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>That's=20
not what I meant when I said computers today guess. I meant=20
how<BR>computers today guess at the answer when the problem =
doesn't have=20
a unique<BR>solution. Example would be how IE guesses file types =
or how=20
notepad guesses<BR>between text and =
unicode.<BR><BR>Geo.<BR><BR>"Antti=20
Kurenniemi" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com">NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com=
</A>>=20
wrote in message<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"news:449392b8$1@w3.nls.net">news:449392b8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
>=20
It was equally bad having people guess things. "I'll switch this =
dip=20
here<BR>> and that there, and then those jumpers that I just =
dropped=20
and have no<BR>clue<BR>> about where they should go... I'll =
just make=20
a neat row of them here,<BR>> that'll do it". I remember a =
lot of=20
hardware having huge manuals for just<BR>> configuring the =
stupid dip=20
switches and whatnots, and that it was possible<BR>> to fry =
things by=20
misconfiguring them. No thanks to that - nowadays, =
at<BR>least<BR>>=20
you don't have to get your hands dirty to break your computer=20
<g><BR>><BR>><BR>> Antti =
Kurenniemi<BR>><BR>> "Geo"=20
<<A href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:44938e6a$2@w3.nls.net">news:44938e6a$2@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
>=20
I kind of prefer the days when computers didn't "guess" at =
things. We=20
used<BR>> to have a saying "computers don't make mistakes" =
but all=20
that changed<BR>now..<BR>><BR>> Geo.<BR>> =
"Rich"=20
<@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:4493558b$1@w3.nls.net">news:4493558b$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
> =20
You don't expect a mainframe to automatically detect any off=20
the<BR>shelf<BR>> adapter that is plugged in. The PC =
could go=20
back to the dark ages too as<BR>> this is how things used to =
be when=20
the PC first came to be.<BR>><BR>> =20
=
Rich<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
E></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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