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Text 1748, 217 rader
Skriven 2005-01-03 22:28:18 av Geo (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 1736 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Usage history
=========================

From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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But do you trust your telephone to store your information or are you = required
to provide that information via the telephone? There is a = difference, if your
telephone recorded your CC number and would play it = back whenever someone hit
the correct 3 digit number sequence, how would = that change your view of that
secure telephone?

I don't think people have a problem with using a computer to purchase = stuff,
they just have a problem (or are learning to have a problem) with = the
computer remembering too much sensitive information.

Try thinking of both the telephone and the computer as simple = communications
devices, they really are quite similar in that regard.

Geo.
  "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net...
     I still disagree.  You are mixing trust in the computer and trust =
in the content viewed with the computer.  I don't trust telemarketers = but I
do not confuse that with trust of the telephone.  I'm sure you = make the
latter distinction.  Don't you make the former?  You have made = plenty of
claims in this groups that indicate that you do.

     If you think people should be afraid of folks listening in then you =
should be encouraging folks to fear their ISPs.  That is the analogous =
scenario.  Your telephone analogy is a bad one because people have been =
exploited by folks listening in on mobile phones and maybe land lines = too. 
Someone else claimed a paranoid fear of law enforcement which has = a long
history of listening to phone conversations.  Now my concerns are = very
different from yours.  I don't fear someone listening to me = communicating a
CC number or other PII.  My concern is the business to = which I communicate it
doesn't protect the information.  There are = plenty of examples of this.   Try
asking your bank if they can tell you =
which of their employees has seen your SSN and when?

  Rich

    "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net...
    "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net...
    >>   I disagree with your conclusion and even more with the =
suggestion that
    your example supports it.  In fact your story argues against your
    conclusion.  People do trust their computers and the web sites they =
visit
    and the email they receive.  If they did not many problems these =
people
    encounter would not exist as they rely on the users trusting =
something they
    should not.<<

    That is what proves my point, I said people are learning not to =
trust their
    computers, they learn this by getting rooted or getting infected by =
an email
    attachment.

    >>   When using the Internet, of all the components to trust, the PC =
is the
    one most worthy of trust as it is the only one over  which you have =
any
    control.  Even non-techical users have control as you do not need to
    understand how things work to control them  (e.g. TV).  <<

    There is a difference between trusting a computer like you trust a =
telephone
    and trusting it like you would trust someone with your credit card. =
I have
    no problem telling a vendor my CC number over the telephone because =
it's
    unlikely someone is listening in, I do have a problem with allowing =
the
    telephone to remember my CC number because it's not a device I trust =
to be
    secure with storing that sort of information.

    Geo.


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1479" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But do you trust your telephone to =
store your=20
information or are you required to provide that information via the =
telephone?=20
There is a difference, if your telephone recorded your CC number and = would
play=20
it back whenever someone hit the correct 3 digit number sequence, how = would
that=20
change your view of that secure telephone?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't think people have a problem =
with using a=20
computer to purchase stuff, they just have a problem&nbsp;(or are = learning
to=20
have a problem) with the computer remembering too much sensitive=20
information.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Try thinking of both the telephone and =
the computer=20
as simple communications devices, they really are quite similar in that=20
regard.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net">news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I still disagree.&nbsp; =
You are=20
  mixing trust in the computer and trust in the content viewed with the=20
  computer.&nbsp; I don't trust telemarketers but I do not confuse that =
with=20
  trust of the telephone.&nbsp; I'm sure you make the latter =
distinction.&nbsp;=20
  Don't you make the former?&nbsp; You have made plenty of claims in =
this groups=20
  that indicate that you do.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; If you think people =
should be afraid=20
  of folks listening in then you should be encouraging folks to fear =
their=20
  ISPs.&nbsp; That is the analogous scenario.&nbsp; Your telephone =
analogy is a=20
  bad one because people have been exploited by folks listening in on =
mobile=20
  phones and maybe land lines too.&nbsp; Someone else claimed a paranoid =
fear of=20
  law enforcement which has a long history of listening to phone=20
  conversations.&nbsp; Now my concerns are very different from =
yours.&nbsp; I=20
  don't fear someone listening to me communicating a CC number or other=20
  PII.&nbsp; My concern is the business to which I communicate it =
doesn't=20
  protect the information.&nbsp; There are plenty of examples of=20
  this.&nbsp;&nbsp; Try asking your bank if they can tell you which of =
their=20
  employees has seen your SSN and when?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
    wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net">news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>"Rich"=20
    &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net">news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    I disagree with your conclusion and even more with the suggestion=20
    that<BR>your example supports it.&nbsp; In fact your story argues =
against=20
    your<BR>conclusion.&nbsp; People do trust their computers and the =
web sites=20
    they visit<BR>and the email they receive.&nbsp; If they did not many =

    problems these people<BR>encounter would not exist as they rely on =
the users=20
    trusting something they<BR>should not.&lt;&lt;<BR><BR>That is what =
proves my=20
    point, I said people are learning not to trust their<BR>computers, =
they=20
    learn this by getting rooted or getting infected by an=20
    email<BR>attachment.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; When using the =
Internet, of=20
    all the components to trust, the PC is the<BR>one most worthy of =
trust as it=20
    is the only one over&nbsp; which you have any<BR>control.&nbsp; Even =

    non-techical users have control as you do not need to<BR>understand =
how=20
    things work to control them&nbsp; (e.g. TV).&nbsp; =
&lt;&lt;<BR><BR>There is=20
    a difference between trusting a computer like you trust a =
telephone<BR>and=20
    trusting it like you would trust someone with your credit card. I =
have<BR>no=20
    problem telling a vendor my CC number over the telephone because=20
    it's<BR>unlikely someone is listening in, I do have a problem with =
allowing=20
    the<BR>telephone to remember my CC number because it's not a device =
I trust=20
    to be<BR>secure with storing that sort of=20
  =
information.<BR><BR>Geo.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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