Text 2106, 116 rader
Skriven 2005-01-21 06:18:04 av Geo (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 2104 av Ellen K. (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Do we protect users from their own stupidity?
=========================================================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>

That's the point, even I don't do that very often because it's too much work (I
use samspade for that) but if you had a "track" button in outlook that could
give you that information and more would you be likely to use it when you
wanted to know something about an email?

There is lots of stuff you can tell from the headers, where a mail was delayed,
where it passed thru on it's way to you, who owns the IP addresses of the
points it passed thru, who owns the IP addresses of links in the email, who the
abuse addresses are for all those IP addresses, etc.

Geo.

"Ellen K." <72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:von0v0th29rqeo7p6k1qlr3e30b6q7bq08@4ax.com...
> Awhile back I started checking IP addresses on spam myself because using
> spamcop is a pain.  So you go to ARIN, and a large percentage of the
> time it refers you to RIPE, APNIC or LACNIC.   How many people are
> really gonna go through that?
>
> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 06:31:12 -0500, "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in
> message <41ee4526$1@w3.nls.net>:
>
> >I didn't say know if it's real, I said know if it's faked (as in if it
claims to be from my bank but comes from a road runner dsl line with no reverse
dns then obviously this isn't my bank.)
> >
> >Again, I'm not trying to verify email, I'm simply trying to describe a
feature that uses existing information in every email and puts that information
in a form that is useful to most users.
> >
> >Arin registration doesn't require any understanding, if you hit "where
did this come from" and the answer comes back as having originated at an IP
address in Russia and passed thru a machine called mail.ksu.edu located at kent
state university in burton oh then you have more information about the email
than you did before and without having to learn to read headers.
> >
> >Geo.
> >
> >"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41edbb74@w3.nls.net...
> >     Knowing the IP address doesn't tell you whether the email is valid
or not without more effort.  This is the whole premise behind Sender ID and
SPF.  This level of thumbs up or down I do think is useful.  Exposing all the
garbage is not just useless but undesirable to most users who have neither the
skill nor the interest.
> >
> >     You may like complaining about spam.  I know folks that do, all
technical.  No one non-technical I know ever thinks of reporting spam.  They
just wish it would go away and delete it.
> >
> >     Do you really think that even a tiny fraction of people have
interest in let alone understanding of arin registration?  You are living on
some other planet.
> >
> >  Rich
> >
> >    "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message
news:41eda4e1$1@w3.nls.net...
> >    Please notice I said nothing about WHO an email came from (I'm in
favor of anonymous email) but instead I said verifying WHERE an email came
from. WHERE is useful because if you get an email from your bank then being
able to verify that it came from your bank's email server is a way to know if
it's been faked. You may not know anyone at the bank so knowing WHO isn't
important.
> >
> >    Likewise if you receive a spam, knowing where it came from allows you
to complain to the ISP who has the compromised host on their network.
> >
> >    I'm not suggesting giving the user just the source IP, I'm suggesting
much more than that. Give them arin registration and the abuse or contact
address, maybe even show a map like neotrace shows. But don't go too far, don't
have the email program automatically create a complaint email like the aol file
as spam button did. Make it slightly more difficult than that to file
complaints so that you don't have stupid users hitting "file as spam" instead
of delete for an email they got from aunt martha. They should have to type in
the contact/abuse address to send a complaint email, that way you don't go and
overwhelm the abuse/contact addresses like aol did.
> >
> >    I think it would be very useful and at the same time not raise much
of the privacy issues that tagging each email with your personal fingerprints
would raise, especially since all this information is already there in the
headers or available online. It's nothing new, it's just a way to make the
computer do the work for the user. I have customers ask me where an email came
from quite often, it's not an unusual request.
> >
> >    All I'm saying to do is answer that question, where did this email
come from. Nothing more, not a validation process, not a secure email feature,
just a simple answer to a simple question that users ask about an email. It
won't solve any problems, it *will* please users.
> >
> >    Geo.
> >      "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41ec6862$1@w3.nls.net...
> >         The headers are garbage to most and not intended to be anything
but.  They are details of the delivery infrastructure.  If you want a mechanism
that authenticates the identity of the sender you should encourage the use of a
mechanism that provides for this like S/MIME.
> >
> >         Postal mail is not different.  The return address is what the
person sending the mail choose to use not who he really is.  The postmark
usually isn't useful because it only tells you one place the mail may have been
not where it came from or who sent it.
> >
> >         I don't believe people would use a "where did this come from"
button both because they don't care and because what you tell them is usually
meaningless.  What do you think most users would do with the IP address of and
maybe one name for the machine that communicated with their ISPs SMTP server? 
I can see value in the results of a validation like that provided by Sender ID,
SPF, or similar which gives you something along the lines of thumbs up or
thumbs down.
> >
> >      Rich
>

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