Text 2110, 408 rader
Skriven 2005-01-21 18:27:52 av Geo (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 2109 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Do we protect users from their own stupidity?
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From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>
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Yes Outlook does hide information that you can see in the raw email. = Suppose
you send a text message with a pdf attachment and you receive it = in outlook
Ok show me how to see this part
------=3D_013325721613207
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
name=3D"RS129067.PDF"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename=3D"RS129067.PDF"
That's the chunk of the raw message I want to see. You open the message = and
it's text with an attachment, right clicking on the body gives no = "view
source" choice. Where can I view the raw base64 text that was sent = as part of
an email? Outlook converted it to an attachment but there is = no way to see
the raw information as it was when it passed thru the spam = filters.
From outlook can you even tell if it was BASE64 or some other encoding = method
that was used?
you can't see this boundry info for the text part either.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41f13425@w3.nls.net...
You keep claiming the information is hiden. It's not. It's just =
not in your face. It shouldn't be. The examples you give are rare. =
Virtually all the time you have no desire for the routing encoding = garbage
that means nothing to virtually everyone.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41f0e6b7$1@w3.nls.net...
Say you have a customer who is having some problem getting emails =
from an email list or they keep getting the same email over and over = again or
they got an email hours after it was sent and want to know why = or any of a
dozen other reasons where you need to see information that = most email
programs now hide.
interesting idea of saving the message, changing the extension then =
attaching it to a new email, I may try that one although that still may = be a
bit much to explain to some people.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41f087ab@w3.nls.net...
What kind of email issue? The encoded body parts only matter =
to me when I suspect there is a problem with the encoding in the sending = app.
OE forward is fine. Use Forward As Attachment. Outlook will =
do this but you have to select two or more messages, forward, then = delete the
extra. There may be a simpler way but I know this one works. =
Still you still won't get what you want from any email program because =
the RFCs have specific rules regarding an embedded RFC822 encoded = message
that may mandate re-encoding parts of it. If I'm really = concerned I have
people save the message, rename it with some = non-message extension, then
attach the renamed file.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41f04260$1@w3.nls.net...
Yes, pretty much any time you have an email issue you need to =
solve, you have to be able to look at the raw message in it's entirety = or be
able to cut/paste it into another email so you can forward it to = someone so
they can see it in it's original form.
The way outlook and outlook express "forward" feature works it =
is virtually useless to forward an email to tech support because all the =
important parts are either removed or modified. ISP techs and = postmasters
walk people thru this copying the raw email to a new email = procedure all the
time.
As an end user you probably wouldn't need it except if you were =
a geek but for support purposes it's quite common.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41ef296e$1@w3.nls.net...
Outlook is not limited to RFC822 format nor is this the =
native format. What you describe is RFC822 specific and assumes that = the
RFC822 format is the storage format.
Do you really view the headers and the encoded body parts =
as something you view for the same reasons?
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41ef23a8$1@w3.nls.net...
I like the outlook express view source feature better than =
that. It allows me to see the headers and the source of the message all = in
one window and I can get to that window without ever opening the = email.
Really wish I could do that in Outlook. (I'm running Outlook 2000 = but it
doesn't sound like the current version is much improved wrt this = feature)
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41ef13a2$1@w3.nls.net...
The headers, all headers for both the message and all =
the MIME parts.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41eef749$2@w3.nls.net...
does that show you just the headers or is it like OE =
view source where it shows the whole raw email all in one screen?
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:41edbbb8@w3.nls.net...
Full headers, yes. In the options dialog.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41eda613@w3.nls.net...
In the current version of Outlook, is there a way to =
view the source for an email without opening the email first like you = can do
in Outlook express?=20
Geo.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes Outlook does hide information =
that you can=20
see in the raw email. Suppose you send a text message with a pdf = attachment
and=20
you receive it in outlook</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ok show me how to see this =
part</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>------=3D_013325721613207<BR> Content-Type: =
application/octet-stream;<BR>=20
name=3D"RS129067.PDF"<BR> Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64<BR>=20
Content-Disposition: attachment;<BR> =
filename=3D"RS129067.PDF"<BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That's the chunk of the raw message I =
want to see.=20
You open the message and it's text with an attachment, right clicking on =
the=20
body gives no "view source" choice. Where can I view the raw base64 text =
that=20
was sent as part of an email? Outlook converted it to an attachment but = there
is=20
no way to see the raw information as it was when it passed thru the spam =
filters.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From outlook can you even tell if it =
was BASE64 or=20
some other encoding method that was used?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>you can't see this boundry info for the =
text part=20
either.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f13425@w3.nls.net">news:41f13425@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> You keep claiming the =
information is=20
hiden. It's not. It's just not in your face. It =
shouldn't=20
be. The examples you give are rare. Virtually all the time =
you=20
have no desire for the routing encoding garbage that means nothing to=20
virtually everyone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f0e6b7$1@w3.nls.net">news:41f0e6b7$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Say you have a customer who is =
having some=20
problem getting emails from an email list or they keep getting the =
same=20
email over and over again or they got an email hours after it was =
sent and=20
want to know why or any of a dozen other reasons where you need to =
see=20
information that most email programs now hide.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>interesting idea of saving the =
message,=20
changing the extension then attaching it to a new email, I may try =
that one=20
although that still may be a bit much to explain to some=20
people.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f087ab@w3.nls.net">news:41f087ab@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> What kind of email =
issue? =20
The encoded body parts only matter to me when I suspect there is a =
problem=20
with the encoding in the sending app.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> OE forward is =
fine. Use=20
Forward As Attachment. Outlook will do this but you have to =
select=20
two or more messages, forward, then delete the extra. There =
may be a=20
simpler way but I know this one works. Still you still won't =
get=20
what you want from any email program because the RFCs have =
specific rules=20
regarding an embedded RFC822 encoded message that may mandate =
re-encoding=20
parts of it. If I'm really concerned I have people save the =
message,=20
rename it with some non-message extension, then attach the renamed =
file.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f04260$1@w3.nls.net">news:41f04260$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes, pretty much any time you =
have an email=20
issue you need to solve, you have to be able to look at the raw =
message=20
in it's entirety or be able to cut/paste it into another email =
so you=20
can forward it to someone so they can see it in it's original=20
form.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The way outlook and outlook =
express=20
"forward" feature works it is virtually useless to forward an =
email to=20
tech support because all the important parts are either removed =
or=20
modified. ISP techs and postmasters walk people thru this =
copying the=20
raw email to a new email procedure all the time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As an end user you probably =
wouldn't need=20
it except if you were a geek but for support purposes it's quite =
common.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41ef296e$1@w3.nls.net">news:41ef296e$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Outlook is not =
limited to=20
RFC822 format nor is this the native format. What you =
describe=20
is RFC822 specific and assumes that the RFC822 format is the =
storage=20
format.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Do you really =
view the=20
headers and the encoded body parts as something you view for =
the same=20
reasons?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41ef23a8$1@w3.nls.net">news:41ef23a8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I like the outlook express =
view source=20
feature better than that. It allows me to see the headers =
and the=20
source of the message all in one window and I can get to =
that window=20
without ever opening the email. Really wish I could do that =
in=20
Outlook. (I'm running Outlook 2000 but it doesn't sound like =
the=20
current version is much improved wrt this =
feature)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41ef13a2$1@w3.nls.net">news:41ef13a2$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> The headers, =
all headers=20
for both the message and all the MIME parts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41eef749$2@w3.nls.net">news:41eef749$2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>does that show you just =
the headers=20
or is it like OE view source where it shows the whole =
raw email=20
all in one screen?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41edbbb8@w3.nls.net">news:41edbbb8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Full =
headers,=20
yes. In the options dialog.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41eda613@w3.nls.net">news:41eda613@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In the current =
version of=20
Outlook, is there a way to view the source for an =
email=20
without opening the email first like you can do in =
Outlook=20
express? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
=
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