Text 490, 324 rader
Skriven 2004-09-07 09:40:40 av Rich (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 487 av Geo. (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Spammers faster than the good guys....
==================================================
From: "Rich" <@>
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In response to a reference to mike miller benefiting you write below =
that "spammers walked around the gate". How have they walked around any = gate
to remove the benefit that mike miller reported for himself? The = two methods
below are the only two you claimed in this thread that = spammers are using
though you gave no examples of either. As for the = "everyone else using it",
as we have discussed before that is not true. = You get incremental benefit
from every indvidual implementor.
Rich
"Geo." <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:413d8b57@w3.nls.net...
I have not suggested they would hack his dns, you said that. I said =
two things,
first SPF relies on everyone else using it in order for your domain to =
be
protected, a situation that will never exist, and second that if the =
spammers
wanted to backscatter attack you it would be trivial to do in spite of =
spf.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:413d48e0$1@w3.nls.net...
Mike has not reported spammers doing anything you claimed they =
would do to
him, either point MX records for their own domains to his SMTP server =
or hack
his DNS entries to allow them to send from his domain from =
unauthorized
machines. If you have evidence of either of these then please give =
the name of
the domain and the identify of the modified or invalid entries so that =
we can
all take a look. If they did not, why would you lie about this?
Rich
"Geo." <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:413d10a6@w3.nls.net...
He benefited until the spammers walked around the gate.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:413d0a85$1@w3.nls.net...
mike already reported that he has benefited and it is not true =
that
everyone
else on the planet has implemented checking. That pretty much shows =
your
nonsense for what it is.
Rich
"Geo." <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:413d0665$1@w3.nls.net...
I claimed for mike to benefit, everyone else on the planet (or at =
least a
vast
majority) would have to implement spf checking.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:413c9097$1@w3.nls.net...
So then you do believe that mike miller has benefited from =
publishing
his
specification?
Or are you just whining again that your imagined claims are =
flawed?
Rich
"Geo." <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:413c8047$1@w3.nls.net...
No, I'm saying that the vast majority of postmasters view SPF as =
a spam
stopping technology which it is not, because they use the =
existence of an
SPF
text record as part of the scoring for emails the spammers have =
learned
that
they can reduce their scores by providing that text record and =
that's
exactly
what is happening.
The flip side of the coin is that SPF was designed to prevent =
backscatter
"attacks" but these weren't really attacks, the spammers just =
need a way
to
redirect backscatter away from themselves and SPF provides =
nothing to
stop
them
from continuing to do that.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:413c6d08$1@w3.nls.net...
so you are claiming that mike miller's domain has had DNS =
spoofed to
change
the records to allow spam from his domain?
Rich
"Geo." <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:413c676d$3@w3.nls.net...
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:413abecc@w3.nls.net...
>> Furthermore, are you claiming that spammers are actually =
doing
what
george
claimed which is to create their own domains and point their =
MX records
at
your
SMTP server? This latter should be simple to verify since the =
NDRs you
receive
would be for the spammer's domains and not yours and you can =
see their
MX
records.<<
What the spammers are doing is following their spambots with =
dynamic
spf
DNS
entries.
Geo.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> In response to a reference =
to mike=20
miller benefiting you write below that "spammers walked around the =
gate". =20
How have they walked around any gate to remove the benefit that mike =
miller=20
reported for himself? The two methods below are the only two you =
claimed=20
in this thread that spammers are using though you gave no examples of=20
either. As for the "everyone else using it", as we have discussed =
before=20
that is not true. You get incremental benefit from every indvidual =
implementor.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo." <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:413d8b57@w3.nls.net">news:413d8b57@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>I =
have=20
not suggested they would hack his dns, you said that. I said two=20
things,<BR>first SPF relies on everyone else using it in order for =
your domain=20
to be<BR>protected, a situation that will never exist, and second that =
if the=20
spammers<BR>wanted to backscatter attack you it would be trivial to do =
in=20
spite of spf.<BR><BR>Geo.<BR><BR>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:413d48e0$1@w3.nls.net">news:413d48e0$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
=20
Mike has not reported spammers doing anything you claimed they would =
do=20
to<BR>him, either point MX records for their own domains to his SMTP =
server or=20
hack<BR>his DNS entries to allow them to send from his domain from=20
unauthorized<BR>machines. If you have evidence of either of =
these then=20
please give the name of<BR>the domain and the identify of the modified =
or=20
invalid entries so that we can<BR>all take a look. If they did =
not, why=20
would you lie about this?<BR><BR>Rich<BR><BR> "Geo." <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote in =
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:413d10a6@w3.nls.net">news:413d10a6@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>&nbs=
p; He=20
benefited until the spammers walked around the gate.<BR><BR> =20
Geo.<BR><BR> "Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:413d0a85$1@w3.nls.net">news:413d0a85$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
=20
mike already reported that he has benefited and it is not true=20
that<BR>everyone<BR> else on the planet has implemented =
checking. =20
That pretty much shows your<BR> nonsense for what it =
is.<BR><BR> =20
Rich<BR><BR> "Geo." <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote in =
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:413d0665$1@w3.nls.net">news:413d0665$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
=20
I claimed for mike to benefit, everyone else on the planet (or at =
least=20
a<BR> vast<BR> majority) would have to =
implement spf=20
checking.<BR><BR> Geo.<BR><BR> =
"Rich"=20
<@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:413c9097$1@w3.nls.net">news:413c9097$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
=20
So then you do believe that mike miller has benefited from=20
publishing<BR>his<BR> =20
specification?<BR><BR> Or are you =
just=20
whining again that your imagined claims are =
flawed?<BR><BR> =20
Rich<BR><BR> "Geo." <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote in =
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:413c8047$1@w3.nls.net">news:413c8047$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
=20
No, I'm saying that the vast majority of postmasters view SPF as a=20
spam<BR> stopping technology which it is =
not,=20
because they use the existence of an<BR> =20
SPF<BR> text record as part of the =
scoring for=20
emails the spammers have learned<BR> =20
that<BR> they can reduce their scores by =
providing that text record and that's<BR> =20
exactly<BR> what is=20
happening.<BR><BR> The flip side of the =
coin is=20
that SPF was designed to prevent =
backscatter<BR> =20
"attacks" but these weren't really attacks, the spammers just need a=20
way<BR>to<BR> redirect backscatter away =
from=20
themselves and SPF provides nothing to<BR>stop<BR> =20
them<BR> from continuing to do=20
that.<BR><BR> =20
Geo.<BR><BR> "Rich" <@> wrote in =
message=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"news:413c6d08$1@w3.nls.net">news:413c6d08$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
=20
so you are claiming that mike miller's domain has had DNS spoofed=20
to<BR> change<BR> the =
records=20
to allow spam from his domain?<BR><BR> =20
Rich<BR><BR> "Geo." <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote in =
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:413c676d$3@w3.nls.net">news:413c676d$3@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
=20
"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:413abecc@w3.nls.net">news:413abecc@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR><BR>=
=20
>> Furthermore, are you claiming that spammers are =
actually=20
doing<BR>what<BR> =20
george<BR> claimed which is =
to=20
create their own domains and point their MX records<BR> =20
at<BR> =20
your<BR> SMTP server? =
This=20
latter should be simple to verify since the NDRs=20
you<BR> =20
receive<BR> would be for the =
spammer's domains and not yours and you can see=20
their<BR>MX<BR> =20
records.<<<BR><BR> =
What the=20
spammers are doing is following their spambots with=20
dynamic<BR>spf<BR> =20
DNS<BR> =20
entries.<BR><BR> =20
Geo.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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