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Text 5429, 323 rader
Skriven 2005-06-26 14:36:38 av Geo (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 5427 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: An Army of Soulless 1's and 0's
===========================================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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No I'm not giving up, just admitting that the latest versions don't = suffer
from the same UI flaws of previous versions. But the fact that so = many people
are still being fooled by this crap speaks volumes about the = real world.

Geo.
  "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net...
     Now you give up on making false claims about safe and unsafe =
attachments.  Are you incapable of admiting you are wrong?

     Are you trying to suggest that someone that downloads a ZIP file, =
opens that file, opens something from that file, and then still ignores = the
warning about it being unsafe should blame any unwanted consequences = on whom,
you?  How often do you infect yourself this way?

  Rich

    "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net...
    not if it's in a zip file.
      "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net...
         To try to fool the few people like you that ignore all the =
other signs.  When OE is configured to allow unsafe file types it = displays
the .scr extension even for the long path.  It also displays = the appropriate
icon which for the example you give is an application = icon not a JPEG icon. 
Outlook and OE still block it or warn about it = depending on settings. =20

      Rich

        "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net...
        You don't believe the current UI with the way it displays an =
icon has had an effect?

        Why then do email virus use such long attachment names?

        Sheep.jpg                                                        =
                                     .scr

        explain that.

        Geo.
          "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net...
             The icons reflect the icons elsewhere in the UI.  I believe =
this makes sense and do not believe that this UI consistency makes users = more
likely to make bad choices.

             File extensions being hidden or not, and they are not on =
file attachments, is not the issue.  I realize that this is a topic you = like
to whine about because you believe that your preference is right = for
everyone.  Do you really believe the the clueless that ignore = warnings would
pay attention to this?  This is all moot given that = unsafe email attachments
are blocked and the article was describing = people downloading from the web
not opening an attachment.

             As for your claim to show a difference, this happens in a =
very obvious way.  Users are warned about dangerous files and not warned =
about safe ones.  The problem is that many ignore the warnings.  This is = the
topic discussed in the email to which you replied and one which you =
completely ignored in your reply.

          Rich

            "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net...
            The answer is very simple, instead of hiding dangerous =
attachments, show the users that these are somehow different from other =
attachments, something as simple as changing the icon to a skull and =
crossbones. To make it so that profession users can't open an attachment =
without an exchange server is just plain rude.

            The problem is MS has spent recent history trying to hide =
file extensions from the users, so now we have a bunch of clueless users = when
it comes to telling which file types are safe and which are not.

            Geo.
              "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42be015f@w3.nls.net...
                 I don't see an easy answer.  The issue is not that =
users are warned when there is no reason too, it's that they got lucky.  = A
better analogy than a combination lock is Russian roulette.  It's = always
dangerous which is why there is a warning.  What would you do?

                 On a related note, how do you make a user that just =
wants things to "work" and clicks OK because it doesn't "work" if he = makes
another choice to care about such choices?  You can remove the = choice which
is the position taken with Outlook and dangerous = attachments.  There were
plenty that complained including folks here = when that happened.

              Rich

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1505" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No I'm not giving up, just admitting =
that the=20
latest versions don't suffer from the same UI flaws of previous = versions.
But=20
the fact that so many people are still being fooled by this crap speaks =
volumes=20
about the real world.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net">news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Now you give up on =
making false=20
  claims about safe and unsafe attachments.&nbsp; Are you incapable of =
admiting=20
  you are wrong?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Are you trying to =
suggest that=20
  someone that downloads a ZIP file, opens that file, opens something =
from that=20
  file, and then still ignores the warning about it being unsafe should =
blame=20
  any unwanted consequences on whom, you?&nbsp; How often do you infect =
yourself=20
  this way?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
    wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net">news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>not if it's in a zip =
file.</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net">news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; To try to fool the =
few people=20
      like you that ignore all the other signs.&nbsp; When OE is =
configured to=20
      allow unsafe file types it displays the&nbsp;.scr&nbsp;extension =
even for=20
      the long path.&nbsp; It also displays the appropriate icon which =
for the=20
      example you give is an application icon not a JPEG icon.&nbsp; =
Outlook and=20
      OE still block it or warn about it depending on settings.&nbsp;=20
      </FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
        wrote in message <A=20
        =
href=3D"news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net">news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You don't believe the current =
UI with the=20
        way it displays an icon has had an effect?</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why then do email virus use =
such long=20
        attachment names?</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
        =
size=3D2>Sheep.jpg&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
        .scr</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>explain that.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
          =
href=3D"news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net">news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; The icons =
reflect the icons=20
          elsewhere in the UI.&nbsp; I believe this makes sense and do =
not=20
          believe that this UI consistency makes users more likely to =
make bad=20
          choices.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; File extensions =
being hidden=20
          or not, and they are not on file attachments, is not the =
issue.&nbsp;=20
          I realize that this is a topic you like to whine about because =
you=20
          believe that your preference is right for everyone.&nbsp; Do =
you=20
          really believe the the clueless that ignore warnings would pay =

          attention to this?&nbsp; This is all moot given that unsafe =
email=20
          attachments are blocked and the article was describing people=20
          downloading from the web not opening an =
attachment.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; As for your =
claim to show a=20
          difference, this happens in a very obvious way.&nbsp; Users =
are warned=20
          about dangerous files and not warned about safe ones.&nbsp; =
The=20
          problem is that many ignore the warnings.&nbsp; This is the =
topic=20
          discussed in the email to which you replied and one which you=20
          completely ignored in your reply.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
            <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
            href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; =
wrote in=20
            message <A=20
            =
href=3D"news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net">news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The answer is very simple, =
instead of=20
            hiding dangerous attachments, show the users that these are =
somehow=20
            different from other attachments, something as simple as =
changing=20
            the icon to a skull and crossbones. To make it so that =
profession=20
            users can't open an attachment without an exchange server is =
just=20
            plain rude.</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The problem is MS has spent =
recent=20
            history trying to hide file&nbsp;extensions from the users, =
so now=20
            we have a bunch of clueless users when it comes to telling =
which=20
            file types are safe and which are not.</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
            style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
              <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
              =
href=3D"news:42be015f@w3.nls.net">news:42be015f@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't see =
an easy=20
              answer.&nbsp;&nbsp;The issue is&nbsp;not that users are =
warned=20
              when&nbsp;there is no reason too, it's that they got =
lucky.&nbsp;=20
              A better analogy than a combination lock is Russian=20
              roulette.&nbsp; It's always dangerous which is why there =
is a=20
              warning.&nbsp; </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What =
would you=20
              do?</FONT></DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; On a related =
note, how=20
              do you make a user that just wants things to "work" and =
clicks OK=20
              because it doesn't "work" if he makes another choice to =
care about=20
              such choices?&nbsp; You can remove the choice which is the =

              position taken with Outlook and dangerous =
attachments.&nbsp; There=20
              were plenty that complained including folks here when that =

              happened.</FONT></DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
          =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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