Text 5432, 361 rader
Skriven 2005-06-26 11:54:04 av Rich (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 5429 av Geo (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: An Army of Soulless 1's and 0's
===========================================
From: "Rich" <@>
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Yes it does speak volumes about the real world. Most people do not =
think like you are care about the thinks you care about regardless of = whether
or not you think they should. Unfortunately, many are easily = tricked into
taking actions against their own interest. That is what is = described in the
lead in to the article that triggered this thread.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:42bef565@w3.nls.net...
No I'm not giving up, just admitting that the latest versions don't =
suffer from the same UI flaws of previous versions. But the fact that so = many
people are still being fooled by this crap speaks volumes about the = real
world.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net...
Now you give up on making false claims about safe and unsafe =
attachments. Are you incapable of admiting you are wrong?
Are you trying to suggest that someone that downloads a ZIP file, =
opens that file, opens something from that file, and then still ignores = the
warning about it being unsafe should blame any unwanted consequences = on whom,
you? How often do you infect yourself this way?
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net...
not if it's in a zip file.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net...
To try to fool the few people like you that ignore all the =
other signs. When OE is configured to allow unsafe file types it = displays
the .scr extension even for the long path. It also displays = the appropriate
icon which for the example you give is an application = icon not a JPEG icon.
Outlook and OE still block it or warn about it = depending on settings. =20
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net...
You don't believe the current UI with the way it displays an =
icon has had an effect?
Why then do email virus use such long attachment names?
Sheep.jpg =
.scr
explain that.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net...
The icons reflect the icons elsewhere in the UI. I =
believe this makes sense and do not believe that this UI consistency = makes
users more likely to make bad choices.
File extensions being hidden or not, and they are not on =
file attachments, is not the issue. I realize that this is a topic you = like
to whine about because you believe that your preference is right = for
everyone. Do you really believe the the clueless that ignore = warnings would
pay attention to this? This is all moot given that = unsafe email attachments
are blocked and the article was describing = people downloading from the web
not opening an attachment.
As for your claim to show a difference, this happens in a =
very obvious way. Users are warned about dangerous files and not warned =
about safe ones. The problem is that many ignore the warnings. This is = the
topic discussed in the email to which you replied and one which you =
completely ignored in your reply.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net...
The answer is very simple, instead of hiding dangerous =
attachments, show the users that these are somehow different from other =
attachments, something as simple as changing the icon to a skull and =
crossbones. To make it so that profession users can't open an attachment =
without an exchange server is just plain rude.
The problem is MS has spent recent history trying to hide =
file extensions from the users, so now we have a bunch of clueless users = when
it comes to telling which file types are safe and which are not.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42be015f@w3.nls.net...
I don't see an easy answer. The issue is not that =
users are warned when there is no reason too, it's that they got lucky. = A
better analogy than a combination lock is Russian roulette. It's = always
dangerous which is why there is a warning. What would you do?
On a related note, how do you make a user that just =
wants things to "work" and clicks OK because it doesn't "work" if he = makes
another choice to care about such choices? You can remove the = choice which
is the position taken with Outlook and dangerous = attachments. There were
plenty that complained including folks here = when that happened.
Rich
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Yes it does speak volumes =
about the=20
real world. Most people do not think like you are care about the =
thinks=20
you care about regardless of whether or not you think they should. =
Unfortunately, many are easily tricked into taking actions against their =
own=20
interest. That is what is described in the lead in to the article =
that=20
triggered this thread.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42bef565@w3.nls.net">news:42bef565@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No I'm not giving up, just admitting =
that the=20
latest versions don't suffer from the same UI flaws of previous =
versions. But=20
the fact that so many people are still being fooled by this crap =
speaks=20
volumes about the real world.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net">news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Now you give up on =
making false=20
claims about safe and unsafe attachments. Are you incapable of =
admiting you are wrong?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Are you trying to =
suggest that=20
someone that downloads a ZIP file, opens that file, opens something =
from=20
that file, and then still ignores the warning about it being unsafe =
should=20
blame any unwanted consequences on whom, you? How often do you =
infect=20
yourself this way?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net">news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>not if it's in a zip =
file.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net">news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> To try to fool the =
few people=20
like you that ignore all the other signs. When OE is =
configured to=20
allow unsafe file types it displays the .scr extension =
even=20
for the long path. It also displays the appropriate icon =
which for=20
the example you give is an application icon not a JPEG =
icon. =20
Outlook and OE still block it or warn about it depending on=20
settings. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net">news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You don't believe the current =
UI with the=20
way it displays an icon has had an effect?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why then do email virus use =
such long=20
attachment names?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2>Sheep.jpg &=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p;  =
; =
&=
nbsp; =20
.scr</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>explain that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net">news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> The icons =
reflect the=20
icons elsewhere in the UI. I believe this makes sense =
and do=20
not believe that this UI consistency makes users more likely =
to make=20
bad choices.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> File =
extensions being=20
hidden or not, and they are not on file attachments, is not =
the=20
issue. I realize that this is a topic you like to =
whine about=20
because you believe that your preference is right for=20
everyone. Do you really believe the the clueless that =
ignore=20
warnings would pay attention to this? This is all moot =
given=20
that unsafe email attachments are blocked and the article =
was=20
describing people downloading from the web not opening an=20
attachment.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> As for your =
claim to show=20
a difference, this happens in a very obvious way. =
Users are=20
warned about dangerous files and not warned about safe =
ones. =20
The problem is that many ignore the warnings. This is =
the=20
topic discussed in the email to which you replied and one =
which you=20
completely ignored in your reply.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net">news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The answer is very =
simple, instead of=20
hiding dangerous attachments, show the users that these =
are=20
somehow different from other attachments, something as =
simple as=20
changing the icon to a skull and crossbones. To make it so =
that=20
profession users can't open an attachment without an =
exchange=20
server is just plain rude.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The problem is MS has =
spent recent=20
history trying to hide file extensions from the =
users, so now=20
we have a bunch of clueless users when it comes to telling =
which=20
file types are safe and which are not.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42be015f@w3.nls.net">news:42be015f@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I don't =
see an easy=20
answer. The issue is not that users are =
warned=20
when there is no reason too, it's that they got=20
lucky. A better analogy than a combination lock is =
Russian=20
roulette. It's always dangerous which is why there =
is a=20
warning. </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What =
would you=20
do?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> On a =
related note, how=20
do you make a user that just wants things to "work" and =
clicks=20
OK because it doesn't "work" if he makes another choice =
to care=20
about such choices? You can remove the choice =
which is the=20
position taken with Outlook and dangerous =
attachments. =20
There were plenty that complained including folks here =
when that=20
happened.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>=
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