Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   5269/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   0/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1123
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3250
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13301
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/341
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4289
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   33431
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2065
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33946
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24159
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4436
FN_SYSOP   41708
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13615
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16075
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22112
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   930
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
Möte OSDEBATE, 18996 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 6026, 339 rader
Skriven 2005-07-14 10:17:16 av Rich (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 6016 av Geo (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: eeye's irresponsible self-serving behavior
======================================================
From: "Rich" <@>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BC_01C5885D.35F4F830
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

   Your car analogy is a bad one.  Cars are recalled to the dealer, not =
the factory, because the consumer can't apply fixes at home.  Software =
doesn't work that way.

Rich

  "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:42d68fad$2@w3.nls.net...
  Providing copies of windows in the box that are not fully patched =
should be proof enough. If MS were a car company, they would have to = issue a
recall every time there was a critical update released.

  Geo.
    "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d5f07d@w3.nls.net...
       So please give an example of irresponsible pr from Microsoft.  =
The 5 year old q&a to which you linked is not an example.  Since you are =
trying to compare this to the irresponsible self-serving pr from eeye, = you
should find a comparable example such as providing the instructions = necessary
to create malware like that eeye provides.

    Rich

      "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d5ed41@w3.nls.net...
      Microsoft doesn't promote malware, they do however use lots of =
irresponsible self-serving pr.

      Stuff like this line of bullshit then taking 188 days to patch a =
remote root anonymous exploit =
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/Features/2001/Oct01/10-03securityqa.ms=
px

      Geo.
        "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d5457f@w3.nls.net...
           Give me example of a Microsoft pr, say a page on =
www.microsoft.com, that provides the information needed for someone to = create
malware like eeye does.

           By interesting I mean intelectually interesting.  As for =
understanding, I think you confuse disagreement with and understanding = of. 
It's a common flaw.

        Rich

          "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d51209$2@w3.nls.net...
          I don't have a problem with their self-serving irresponsible =
pr any more than I do with microsofts irresponsible self-serving pr, = that's a
hangup that seems to be unique to you.

          As for interesting, you appear to be a programmer not a hacker =
so why would you find anything to do with hacking interesting? You've = proven
several times that you don't even understand the hacker mindset.

          Geo.
            "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d4bd97@w3.nls.net...
               You clearly buy into their self-serving irresponsible pr =
more than I do.  I was a bit surprised when you stated a few messages = back
that they steal the ideas for the vulnerabilities from others and = take credit
for themselves.  While they do not do much interesting, I = had at least though
it was their own.  you actually lowered my opinion = of them even further.

            Rich

              "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d47f65$1@w3.nls.net...
              Oh give me a break, these guys single handedly destroyed =
NT's security reputation.

              Hell they were the reason for the "information anarchy" =
program to silence the security lists.

              Geo.=20
                "Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42d36801$1@w3.nls.net...
                   An extraordinary one.  I suspect there isn't a =
significant difference between what they could do and what you could do =
taking advantage of published information.  The only thing remarkable = about
these folks is that they publish press releases putting the public = at risk to
promote themselves for financial gain.

                Rich

                  "John Beckett" <FirstnameSurname@compuserve.com.omit> =
wrote in message news:rcl6d1hegtubg74l7fc4t8e0haom1kvkrc@4ax.com...
                  "Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:<42d3503e$1@w3.nls.net>:
                  >    You should remember that this is true only in =
george's imagination.

                  Perhaps the 95% is an exaggeration. But there have =
been many examples (I
                  think starting with the IIS debacles) that show that =
eeye could have owned
                  an extremely large number of computers if Microsoft =
had not changed its
                  "release when it's good enough" attitude.

                  John

------=_NextPart_000_01BC_01C5885D.35F4F830
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2668" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Your car analogy is a bad =
one.&nbsp;=20
Cars are recalled to the dealer, not the factory, because the consumer =
can't=20
apply fixes at home.&nbsp; Software doesn't work that way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote=20
  in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:42d68fad$2@w3.nls.net">news:42d68fad$2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Providing copies of windows in the =
box that are=20
  not fully patched should be proof enough. If MS were a car company, =
they would=20
  have to issue a recall every time there was a critical update=20
  released.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42d5f07d@w3.nls.net">news:42d5f07d@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; So please give an =
example of=20
    irresponsible pr from Microsoft.&nbsp; The 5 year old q&amp;a to =
which you=20
    linked is not an example.&nbsp; Since you are trying to compare this =
to the=20
    irresponsible self-serving pr from eeye, you should find a =
comparable=20
    example such as providing the instructions necessary to create =
malware like=20
    that eeye provides.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
      wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:42d5ed41@w3.nls.net">news:42d5ed41@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Microsoft doesn't promote =
malware, they do=20
      however use lots of irresponsible self-serving pr.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Stuff like this line of bullshit =
then taking=20
      188 days to patch a remote root anonymous exploit <A=20
      =
href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/Features/2001/Oct01/10-03secur=
ityqa.mspx">http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/Features/2001/Oct01/10-03s=
ecurityqa.mspx</A></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
        =
href=3D"news:42d5457f@w3.nls.net">news:42d5457f@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Give me example of =

        a&nbsp;Microsoft pr, say a page on <A=20
        href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com">www.microsoft.com</A>, that =
provides the=20
        information needed for someone to create malware like eeye=20
        does.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; By interesting I =
mean=20
        intelectually interesting.&nbsp; As for understanding, I think =
you=20
        confuse disagreement with and understanding of.&nbsp; It's a =
common=20
        flaw.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
          href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote =
in message=20
          <A=20
          =
href=3D"news:42d51209$2@w3.nls.net">news:42d51209$2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't have a problem with =
their=20
          self-serving irresponsible pr any more than I do with =
microsofts=20
          irresponsible self-serving pr, that's a hangup that seems to =
be unique=20
          to you.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for interesting, you =
appear to be a=20
          programmer not a hacker so why would you find anything to do =
with=20
          hacking interesting? You've proven several times that you =
don't even=20
          understand the hacker mindset.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
            <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
            =
href=3D"news:42d4bd97@w3.nls.net">news:42d4bd97@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; You clearly =
buy=20
            into&nbsp;their self-serving irresponsible pr more than I =
do.&nbsp;=20
            I was a bit surprised when you stated a few messages back =
that they=20
            steal the ideas for the vulnerabilities from others and take =
credit=20
            for themselves.&nbsp; While they do not do much interesting, =
I had=20
            at least though it was their own.&nbsp; you actually lowered =
my=20
            opinion of them even further.</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
            style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
              <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
              href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; =
wrote in=20
              message <A=20
              =
href=3D"news:42d47f65$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d47f65$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Oh give me a break, these =
guys single=20
              handedly destroyed NT's security reputation.</FONT></DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hell they were the reason =
for the=20
              "information anarchy"&nbsp;program to silence the security =

              lists.</FONT></DIV>
              <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
              style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
                =
href=3D"news:42d36801$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d36801$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
                <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; An =
extraordinary=20
                one.&nbsp; I suspect there isn't a significant =
difference=20
                between what they could do and&nbsp;what you could do =
taking=20
                advantage of published information.&nbsp; The only thing =

                remarkable about these folks is that they publish press =
releases=20
                putting the public at risk to promote themselves for =
financial=20
                gain.</FONT></DIV>
                <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
                <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                <BLOCKQUOTE=20
                style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                  <DIV>"John Beckett" &lt;<A=20
                  =
href=3D"mailto:FirstnameSurname@compuserve.com.omit">FirstnameSurname@com=
puserve.com.omit</A>&gt;=20
                  wrote in message <A=20
                  =
href=3D"news:rcl6d1hegtubg74l7fc4t8e0haom1kvkrc@4ax.com">news:rcl6d1hegtu=
bg74l7fc4t8e0haom1kvkrc@4ax.com</A>...</DIV>"Rich"=20
                  &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
                  =
href=3D"news:<42d3503e$1@w3.nls.net">news:&lt;42d3503e$1@w3.nls.net</A>&g=
t;:<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
                  You should remember that this is true only in george's =

                  imagination.<BR><BR>Perhaps the 95% is an =
exaggeration. But=20
                  there have been many examples (I<BR>think starting =
with the=20
                  IIS debacles) that show that eeye could have =
owned<BR>an=20
                  extremely large number of computers if Microsoft had =
not=20
                  changed its<BR>"release when it's good enough"=20
                  =
attitude.<BR><BR>John<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BO=
DY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_01BC_01C5885D.35F4F830--

--- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5
 * Origin: Barktopia BBS Site http://HarborWebs.com:8081 (1:379/45)