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Text 6086, 228 rader
Skriven 2005-07-15 18:08:08 av Geo (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 6075 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: eeye's irresponsible self-serving behavior
======================================================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Why do I think non-technical users see a difference? Because they know = to
call the ISP when our mail server isn't responding and they know not = to call
us when the browser says page not found.

We don't secure customers when it comes to email, if they get their = email
from somewhere other than our servers we do nothing to block spam = or virus.
All we do is prevent our servers from delivering virus and we = block as much
spam as possible from being sent to our servers. There is = a huge difference
between that and securing customers.

And you're right, it is a choice, just like writing our own OS or = building
our own line of computers is a choice, so what? Why is it you = think that
because Microsoft made the choice to build their own OS we = should be
responsible for securing it?

Geo.
  "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d81e21@w3.nls.net...
     Why do you think non-technical users will see a difference because =
you use different equipment for email than you do for other parts of the =
network?

     ISPs should strive to secure their customers and when it comes to =
email you have stated that you attempt to do so.  It is your business = and you
are free to pick and choose if and when you protect your paying = customers. 
You should just acknowledge that you do make this choice and = that your
choices are pretty much arbitrary.

  Rich

    "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d8197d$1@w3.nls.net...
    Come on Rich, nobody thinks like that. Spam and email virus exploit =
email so are blocked at the mail server, if the ISP hosts the mail then = the
ISP blocks it, if the user hosts their own mail then it's their = problem. Same
with worms, they exploit the machines, the ISP secures the = web server hosting
the user's homepage but the user secures their = personal computer.

    Other types of attacks like spoofed traffic, smurf attacks and such =
are network exploits and are blocked at the network.

    Why should every ISP on the planet be responsible for securing =
Microsoft's products? That's typical, make it the responsibility of = anyone
but microsoft, huh? Call anyone who tells people about exploits = irresponsible
like finding an exploit is bad, blame the network admin = for not blocking all
bad traffic without defining bad traffic, blame the = user for clicking on an
attachment that came from someone he knows after = telling him to not trust
email from people he doesn't know, blame people = for not knowing how to get to
windowsupate without getting wormed after = telling them it's really simple
just turn on automatic updates, add a = "popup blocker" after making popups
possible, man what a scam.

    Geo.
      "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d72f66@w3.nls.net...
         Windows XP without SP2 is still trivial.  SP2 CDs are free and =
have been.  See =
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/updates/sp2/cdorder/en_us/de=
fault.mspx.

         I think from real people you will find that they do not =
consider receiving attacks from the ISP's controlled network acceptable, =
particular with a lame excuse such as the one you give that the network = is
functioning as intended when it allows them to be attacked.  Just = like they
don't care that your email servers deliver spam and viruses to = them because
it is functioning as intended.  Oh wait, you don't appear = to believe the
latter either so you are a hypocrite too.

      Rich

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1505" name=3DGENERATOR>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why do I think non-technical users see =
a=20
difference? Because they know to call the ISP when&nbsp;our mail server =
isn't=20
responding and they know not to call us when the browser says page not=20
found.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We don't secure customers when it comes =
to email,=20
if they get their email from somewhere other than our servers we do = nothing
to=20
block spam or virus. All we do is prevent our servers from delivering = virus
and=20
we block as much spam as possible from being sent to our servers. There = is
a=20
huge difference between that and securing customers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And you're right, it is a choice, just =
like writing=20
our own OS or building our own line of computers is a choice, so what? = Why is
it=20
you think that because Microsoft made the choice to build their own OS = we
should=20
be responsible for securing it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:42d81e21@w3.nls.net">news:42d81e21@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Why do you think =
non-technical users=20
  will see a difference because you use different equipment for email =
than you=20
  do for other parts of the network?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; ISPs should strive to =
secure their=20
  customers and when it comes to email you have stated that you attempt =
to do=20
  so.&nbsp; It is your business and you are free to pick and choose if =
and when=20
  you protect your paying customers.&nbsp; You should just acknowledge =
that you=20
  do make this choice and that your choices are pretty much=20
  arbitrary.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
    wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42d8197d$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d8197d$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Come on Rich, nobody thinks like =
that. Spam and=20
    email virus exploit email so&nbsp;are blocked at the mail server, if =
the ISP=20
    hosts the mail then the ISP blocks it, if the user hosts their own =
mail then=20
    it's their problem. Same with worms, they exploit the machines, the=20
    ISP&nbsp;secures the web server hosting the user's homepage but the =
user=20
    secures their personal computer.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Other types of attacks like spoofed =
traffic,=20
    smurf attacks and such are network exploits and are blocked at the=20
    network.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why should every ISP on the planet =
be=20
    responsible for securing Microsoft's products? That's typical, make =
it the=20
    responsibility of anyone but microsoft, huh? Call anyone who tells =
people=20
    about exploits irresponsible like finding an exploit is bad, blame =
the=20
    network admin&nbsp;for not blocking all bad traffic without defining =
bad=20
    traffic, blame the user for clicking on an attachment that came from =
someone=20
    he knows after telling him to not trust email from people he doesn't =
know,=20
    blame people for not knowing how to get to windowsupate without =
getting=20
    wormed after telling them it's really simple just turn on automatic =
updates,=20
    add a "popup blocker" after making popups possible, man what a=20
    scam.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:42d72f66@w3.nls.net">news:42d72f66@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Windows XP without =
SP2 is still=20
      trivial.&nbsp; SP2 CDs are free and have been.&nbsp; See <A=20
      =
href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/updates/sp2/cdorder/=
en_us/default.mspx">http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/updates/=
sp2/cdorder/en_us/default.mspx</A>.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I think from real =
people you=20
      will find that they do not consider receiving attacks from the =
ISP's=20
      controlled network acceptable, particular with a lame excuse such =
as the=20
      one you give that the network is functioning as intended when it =
allows=20
      them to be attacked.&nbsp; Just like they don't care that your =
email=20
      servers deliver spam and viruses&nbsp;to them because it is =
functioning as=20
      intended.&nbsp; Oh wait, you don't appear to believe the latter =
either so=20
      you are a hypocrite too.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY=
></HTML>

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