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Möte OSDEBATE, 18996 texter
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Text 6146, 383 rader
Skriven 2005-07-18 16:17:42 av Rich (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 6143 av Geo (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Disk perf
=====================
From: "Rich" <@>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

   I don't believe you know how the cache works.

Rich

  "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:42dc211c@w3.nls.net...
    1     9 ms    11 ms     9 ms  [216.144.26.33]
    2    45 ms    86 ms    55 ms  r-cle2.nls.net [216.144.8.2]
    3    46 ms    65 ms    44 ms  r-cle1.nls.net [216.144.8.1]
    4    59 ms    55 ms    53 ms  sl-gw4-roa-4-0-ts2.sprintlink.net =
[144.228.252.233]
    5    72 ms    53 ms    65 ms  sl-bb22-roa-2-1.sprintlink.net =
[144.232.17.205]
    6    76 ms    73 ms    56 ms  sl-bb22-chi-6-1.sprintlink.net =
[144.232.8.81]
    7    60 ms    59 ms    58 ms  sl-st21-chi-11-0.sprintlink.net =
[144.232.20.21]
    8    58 ms    53 ms    91 ms  sl-xocomm-15-0.sprintlink.net =
[144.223.241.66]
    9    56 ms   105 ms    56 ms  p5-0-0.rar2.chicago-il.us.xo.net =
[65.106.6.137]
   10    58 ms    61 ms    94 ms  p0-0-0d0.rar1.chicago-il.us.xo.net =
[65.106.1.85]
   11    79 ms   114 ms    85 ms  p6-0-0.rar2.washington-dc.us.xo.net =
[65.106.0.46]
   12    85 ms    91 ms    82 ms  p0-0-0d0.rar1.washington-dc.us.xo.net =
[65.106.1.13]
   13    78 ms    75 ms   161 ms  p6-0-0.rar2.nyc-ny.us.xo.net =
[65.106.0.1]
   14    76 ms    81 ms   286 ms  p0-0-0d0.rar1.nyc-ny.us.xo.net =
[65.106.1.1]
   15   114 ms    76 ms    79 ms  p0-0-0.mar1.nyc-ny.us.xo.net =
[65.106.3.46]
   16    76 ms    99 ms    78 ms  p0-0.chr1.nyc-ny.us.xo.net =
[207.88.86.166]

  You probably have about 100ms more lag cause of the distance. Cache =
will still be slow if you have lag because it's still got to resolve and =
check the linked graphics and such before it can match them up with the =
cache.

  Geo.


    "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42db0176@w3.nls.net...
       It can't get any faster than the network traffic.  I'm at least =
15 hops from the nyt.  If their servers are on the east cost you will be = much
closer.  Since all the downloads are small latency matters more = than
throughput which is why with everything cached it still took six = seconds for
me.

    Rich

      "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42dafff1@w3.nls.net...
      I just clicked and counted, 1...2...3..finished

      I'm serious though, set your cache to 1mb, purge it, go to that =
/content.ie5 directory and purge it as well then give it a try.

      Geo.
        "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42dafba4@w3.nls.net...
           You can't compare two machines connected to different =
networks at different times of the day.

           Did you measure the 4 seconds by counting or measuring?  I =
used a network capture with timestamps for all the packets.  The time I =
reported is from the first request to the last request.  I should have =
included the last response so my numbers, which I rounded down to whole =
seconds, would actually be a bit longer.

        Rich

          "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42dae95a$1@w3.nls.net...
          I clicked on your NYT link and my browser started up and the =
page came up in less than 4 seconds total. Perhaps instead of an empty = cache
you should try it with your cache set to 1mb.

          Geo.
            "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d9397d@w3.nls.net...
               Because the cache still has a very significant =
performance benefit and even with DSL speeds pages take far longer than = a
blink to appear.  For example, I just tried www.nytimes.com with an = empty
cache.  There are 86 HTTP requests that take 10 seconds.  With the = cache it
only took 6 seconds.

               Your ideas on DNS are equally silly, particularly because =
DNS is explicitly a multi-level cache.

            Rich

              "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d9304a$1@w3.nls.net...
              "Frank Haber" <frhaber@N0SPMrcn.com> wrote in message
              news:42d84be9$1@w3.nls.net...
              > (Browser cache)
              >
              > Firefox and Moz come set to 50MB.  I find that a good =
round number.

              When I was on dialup, 5mb seemed like a good cache (50 =
munutes to download
              5mb), because cache made a difference. On todays DSL =
connected computers,
              nothing but the previous 4 or so pages should be cached, =
it's just a huge
              waste since it only takes a blink to bring up a page on =
DSL. Why todays
              browsers continue this outdated practice and don't sense =
the connection
              speed and adjust accordingly is beyond me.

              It's the same logic as the DNS client cache, both these =
caching functions
              create limited problems from time to time, the goal should =
be to get away
              from problematic methods and go for reliability. Of course =
that's a concept
              that's foreign to most programmers today, they are blind =
to the idea of
              dropping an obsolete function and would rather waste time =
trying to cure the
              problems it creates.

              Geo.


------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C58BB4.3A406500
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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2668" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't believe you know =
how the cache=20
works.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote=20
  in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:42dc211c@w3.nls.net">news:42dc211c@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 9=20
  ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 11 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 9 ms&nbsp;=20
  [216.144.26.33]<BR>&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 45 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
86=20
  ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 55 ms&nbsp; r-cle2.nls.net =
[216.144.8.2]<BR>&nbsp;=20
  3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 46 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 65 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 44 =

  ms&nbsp; r-cle1.nls.net [216.144.8.1]<BR>&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 59 =

  ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 55 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 53 ms&nbsp;=20
  sl-gw4-roa-4-0-ts2.sprintlink.net [144.228.252.233]<BR>&nbsp;=20
  5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 72 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 53 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 65 =

  ms&nbsp; sl-bb22-roa-2-1.sprintlink.net [144.232.17.205]</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp; 6&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 76=20
  ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 73 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 56 ms&nbsp;=20
  sl-bb22-chi-6-1.sprintlink.net [144.232.8.81]<BR>&nbsp; =
7&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 60=20
  ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 59 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 58 ms&nbsp;=20
  sl-st21-chi-11-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.20.21]</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp; 8&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 58=20
  ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 53 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 91 ms&nbsp;=20
  sl-xocomm-15-0.sprintlink.net [144.223.241.66]<BR>&nbsp; =
9&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  56 ms&nbsp;&nbsp; 105 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 56 ms&nbsp;=20
  p5-0-0.rar2.chicago-il.us.xo.net [65.106.6.137]</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;10&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 58=20
  ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 61 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 94 ms&nbsp;=20
  p0-0-0d0.rar1.chicago-il.us.xo.net [65.106.1.85]</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;11&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 79 =
ms&nbsp;&nbsp; 114=20
  ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 85 ms&nbsp; p6-0-0.rar2.washington-dc.us.xo.net=20
  [65.106.0.46]<BR>&nbsp;12&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 85 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 91 =

  ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 82 ms&nbsp; p0-0-0d0.rar1.washington-dc.us.xo.net =

  [65.106.1.13]<BR>&nbsp;13&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 78 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 75 =

  ms&nbsp;&nbsp; 161 ms&nbsp; p6-0-0.rar2.nyc-ny.us.xo.net=20
  [65.106.0.1]<BR>&nbsp;14&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 76 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 81=20
  ms&nbsp;&nbsp; 286 ms&nbsp; p0-0-0d0.rar1.nyc-ny.us.xo.net=20
  [65.106.1.1]<BR>&nbsp;15&nbsp;&nbsp; 114 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 76=20
  ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 79 ms&nbsp; p0-0-0.mar1.nyc-ny.us.xo.net=20
  [65.106.3.46]<BR>&nbsp;16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 76 ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 99 =

  ms&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 78 ms&nbsp; p0-0.chr1.nyc-ny.us.xo.net=20
  [207.88.86.166]</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You probably have about 100ms more =
lag cause of=20
  the distance. Cache will still be slow if you have lag because it's =
still got=20
  to resolve and check&nbsp;the linked graphics and such before it can =
match=20
  them up with the cache.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42db0176@w3.nls.net">news:42db0176@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; It can't get any =
faster than the=20
    network traffic.&nbsp; I'm at least 15 hops from the nyt.&nbsp; If =
their=20
    servers are on the east cost you will be much closer.&nbsp; Since =
all the=20
    downloads are small latency matters more than throughput which is =
why with=20
    everything cached it still took six seconds for me.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
      wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:42dafff1@w3.nls.net">news:42dafff1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I just clicked and counted,=20
      1...2...3..finished</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm serious though, set your =
cache to 1mb,=20
      purge it, go to that /content.ie5 directory and purge it as well =
then give=20
      it a try.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
        =
href=3D"news:42dafba4@w3.nls.net">news:42dafba4@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; You can't compare =
two machines=20
        connected to different networks at different times of the=20
        day.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Did you measure =
the 4 seconds=20
        by counting or measuring?&nbsp; I used a network capture with =
timestamps=20
        for all the packets.&nbsp; The time I reported is from the first =
request=20
        to the last request.&nbsp; I should have included the last =
response so=20
        my numbers, which I rounded down to whole seconds, would =
actually be a=20
        bit longer.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
          href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote =
in message=20
          <A=20
          =
href=3D"news:42dae95a$1@w3.nls.net">news:42dae95a$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I clicked on your NYT link =
and my browser=20
          started up and the page came up in less than 4 seconds total. =
Perhaps=20
          instead of an empty cache you should try it with your cache =
set to=20
          1mb.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
            <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
            =
href=3D"news:42d9397d@w3.nls.net">news:42d9397d@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Because the =
cache still=20
            has a very significant performance benefit and even with DSL =
speeds=20
            pages take far longer than a blink to appear.&nbsp; For =
example, I=20
            just tried <A =
href=3D"http://www.nytimes.com">www.nytimes.com</A> with=20
            an empty cache.&nbsp; There are 86 HTTP requests that take =
10=20
            seconds.&nbsp; With the cache it only took 6 =
seconds.</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Your ideas on =
DNS are=20
            equally silly, particularly because DNS is explicitly a =
multi-level=20
            cache.</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE=20
            style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
              <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
              href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; =
wrote in=20
              message <A=20
              =
href=3D"news:42d9304a$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d9304a$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>"Frank=20
              Haber" &lt;<A=20
              =
href=3D"mailto:frhaber@N0SPMrcn.com">frhaber@N0SPMrcn.com</A>&gt;=20
              wrote in message<BR><A=20
              =
href=3D"news:42d84be9$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d84be9$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
&gt;=20
              (Browser cache)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Firefox and Moz come set =
to=20
              50MB.&nbsp; I find that a good round number.<BR><BR>When I =
was on=20
              dialup, 5mb seemed like a good cache (50 munutes to=20
              download<BR>5mb), because cache made a difference. On =
todays DSL=20
              connected computers,<BR>nothing but the previous 4 or so =
pages=20
              should be cached, it's just a huge<BR>waste since it only =
takes a=20
              blink to bring up a page on DSL. Why todays<BR>browsers =
continue=20
              this outdated practice and don't sense the =
connection<BR>speed and=20
              adjust accordingly is beyond me.<BR><BR>It's the same =
logic as the=20
              DNS client cache, both these caching functions<BR>create =
limited=20
              problems from time to time, the goal should be to get =
away<BR>from=20
              problematic methods and go for reliability. Of course =
that's a=20
              concept<BR>that's foreign to most programmers today, they =
are=20
              blind to the idea of<BR>dropping an obsolete function and =
would=20
              rather waste time trying to cure the<BR>problems it=20
              =
creates.<BR><BR>Geo.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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