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Text 6753, 352 rader
Skriven 2005-08-27 13:13:40 av Rich (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 6752 av Robert Comer (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: TPM
===============
From: "Rich" <@>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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   I disagree.

   What are the negatives of having a TPM?

   Do you have or have you seen a recent thinkpad with one?  How about a =
recent toshiba laptop?  Are these lesser devices because of it?

Rich

  "Robert Comer" <bobcomer@mindspring.com> wrote in message =
news:4310c52a$1@w3.nls.net...
  >   You don't have to use a TPM even if your computer has one.

  Right now, yes, but in the future, I doubt that it's going to be =
optional.=20
  Look at the beta x86 OSX -- it requires  a specific TPM.

  >If you just want a smartcard you could have had one for years.

  I didn't say I wanted one, just that I maybe could live with in place =
of=20
  TPM.

  >A TPM builtin provides other benefits.

  And negatives as well.

  - Bob Comer


  "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:4310abaa@w3.nls.net...
     You don't have to use a TPM even if your computer has one.  If you =
just=20
  want a smartcard you could have had one for years.  A TPM builtin =
provides=20
  other benefits.

  Rich

    "Robert Comer" <bobcomer@mindspring.com> wrote in message=20
  news:43108b95$1@w3.nls.net...
    >   VT is virtualization.

    Yep, know that, it's my specialty.

    >LT is security.  Neither is what george likes to call DRM.

    True.

    >What he tries to spin as something sinister is the smart card like
    >functionality (e.g. secure storage, hardware crypto) >provided by a =
TPM
    >chip.

    That's the one I don't like.   A smartcard idea I maybe could live =
with,=20
  but
    it would have to be both optional for the OS and machine, and =
portable
    between machines.  Like a key basically, I carry it to whatever =
machine I
    happen to be using it at the time, rather than it being tied to a =
specific
    piece of hardware, and you should have the ability to own more than =
just=20
  one
    key.

    - Bob Comer


    "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:430ff6af@w3.nls.net...
       VT is virtualization.  LT is security.  Neither is what george =
likes to
    call DRM.  What he tries to spin as something sinister is the smart =
card
    like functionality (e.g. secure storage, hardware crypto) provided =
by a=20
  TPM
    chip.

    Rich

      "Robert Comer" <bobcomer@mindspring.com> wrote in message
    news:430fdaf8$1@w3.nls.net...
      Yep, it looks like it's coming, probably not anything we can do =
about it
      either -- it's for the masses to decide about.

      For now, no DRM media stuff for me at all, I refuse to use it.  I =
don't=20
  do
      any media other than broadcast TV on my PC.  I'll probably get a =
new
      processor soon, with VT, dual or quad core, and yes, DRM, but that =

  doesn't
      mean I have to allow the DRM part to make any difference to what I =
want=20
  to
      do.

      Eventually there will probably be some computer/OS company that =
will
    emerge
      to satisfy our computing needs, but for entertainment, we're =
screwed=20
  until
      everyone else catches up and they revolt.

      - Bob Comer



      "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:430fbaa3$1@w3.nls.net...
      > All this DRM crap is nothing but a power grab so that technology
    companies
      > can enforce more restrictions on how we use technology in order =
to
    extort
      > more money for the same shit.
      >
      > Once it becomes possible to prevent you from upgrading your OS =
without
      > upgrading your computer, or to prevent you from upgrading your=20
  computer
      > without upgrading your OS, do you really think Intel or MS will =
be=20
  able
    to
      > resist the temptation? Do you think a computer sold with windows =

  should
      > allow the user to remove windows and install Linux cause I =
somehow=20
  think
      > that's the kind of limitations we are headed for.
      >
      > Intel is going to have to include that type of tech to make =
Apple=20
  happy,
      > especially in light of the recent news that OSX was running on =
non=20
  Apple
      > PC's already...
      >
      > Geo.
      >
      > "Robert Comer" <bobcomer@mindspring.com> wrote in message
      > news:430eed74@w3.nls.net...
      >> I don't know if any do yet, but they agreed to do drm hardware =
for
      > palladium
      >> just like intel did.
      >>
      >> - Bob Comer
      >
      >




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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I disagree.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; What are the negatives of =
having a=20
TPM?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Do you have or have you =
seen a recent=20
thinkpad with one?&nbsp; How about a recent toshiba laptop?&nbsp; Are =
these=20
lesser devices because of it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Robert Comer" &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:bobcomer@mindspring.com">bobcomer@mindspring.com</A>&gt; = wrote
in=20
  message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:4310c52a$1@w3.nls.net">news:4310c52a$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  You don't have to use a TPM even if your computer has =
one.<BR><BR>Right now,=20
  yes, but in the future, I doubt that it's going to be optional. =
<BR>Look at=20
  the beta x86 OSX -- it requires&nbsp; a specific TPM.<BR><BR>&gt;If =
you just=20
  want a smartcard you could have had one for years.<BR><BR>I didn't say =
I=20
  wanted one, just that I maybe could live with in place of=20
  <BR>TPM.<BR><BR>&gt;A TPM builtin provides other benefits.<BR><BR>And=20
  negatives as well.<BR><BR>- Bob Comer<BR><BR><BR>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; =
wrote in=20
  message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:4310abaa@w3.nls.net">news:4310abaa@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>&nbs=
p;&nbsp;=20
  You don't have to use a TPM even if your computer has one.&nbsp; If =
you just=20
  <BR>want a smartcard you could have had one for years.&nbsp; A TPM =
builtin=20
  provides <BR>other benefits.<BR><BR>Rich<BR><BR>&nbsp; "Robert Comer" =
&lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:bobcomer@mindspring.com">bobcomer@mindspring.com</A>&gt; = wrote
in=20
  message <BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"news:43108b95$1@w3.nls.net">news:43108b95$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
&nbsp;=20
  &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; VT is virtualization.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Yep, know that, =
it's my=20
  specialty.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &gt;LT is security.&nbsp; Neither is what =
george=20
  likes to call DRM.<BR><BR>&nbsp; True.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &gt;What he tries =
to spin=20
  as something sinister is the smart card like<BR>&nbsp; =
&gt;functionality (e.g.=20
  secure storage, hardware crypto) &gt;provided by a TPM<BR>&nbsp;=20
  &gt;chip.<BR><BR>&nbsp; That's the one I don't like.&nbsp;&nbsp; A =
smartcard=20
  idea I maybe could live with, <BR>but<BR>&nbsp; it would have to be =
both=20
  optional for the OS and machine, and portable<BR>&nbsp; between=20
  machines.&nbsp; Like a key basically, I carry it to whatever machine=20
  I<BR>&nbsp; happen to be using it at the time, rather than it being =
tied to a=20
  specific<BR>&nbsp; piece of hardware, and you should have the ability =
to own=20
  more than just <BR>one<BR>&nbsp; key.<BR><BR>&nbsp; - Bob=20
  Comer<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; "Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:430ff6af@w3.nls.net">news:430ff6af@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  VT is virtualization.&nbsp; LT is security.&nbsp; Neither is what =
george likes=20
  to<BR>&nbsp; call DRM.&nbsp; What he tries to spin as something =
sinister is=20
  the smart card<BR>&nbsp; like functionality (e.g. secure storage, =
hardware=20
  crypto) provided by a <BR>TPM<BR>&nbsp; chip.<BR><BR>&nbsp;=20
  Rich<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "Robert Comer" &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:bobcomer@mindspring.com">bobcomer@mindspring.com</A>&gt; = wrote
in=20
  message<BR>&nbsp; <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:430fdaf8$1@w3.nls.net">news:430fdaf8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  Yep, it looks like it's coming, probably not anything we can do about=20
  it<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; either -- it's for the masses to decide=20
  about.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; For now, no DRM media stuff for me at =
all, I=20
  refuse to use it.&nbsp; I don't <BR>do<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; any media =
other=20
  than broadcast TV on my PC.&nbsp; I'll probably get a=20
  new<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; processor soon, with VT, dual or quad core, =
and yes,=20
  DRM, but that <BR>doesn't<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; mean I have to allow =
the DRM=20
  part to make any difference to what I want =
<BR>to<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  do.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Eventually there will probably be some=20
  computer/OS company that will<BR>&nbsp; emerge<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
to=20
  satisfy our computing needs, but for entertainment, we're screwed=20
  <BR>until<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; everyone else catches up and they=20
  revolt.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Bob=20
  Comer<BR><BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "Geo" &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote in =
message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:430fbaa3$1@w3.nls.net">news:430fbaa3$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &gt; All this DRM crap is nothing but a power grab so that=20
  technology<BR>&nbsp; companies<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; can enforce =
more=20
  restrictions on how we use technology in order to<BR>&nbsp;=20
  extort<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; more money for the same=20
  shit.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Once it =
becomes=20
  possible to prevent you from upgrading your OS =
without<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &gt; upgrading your computer, or to prevent you from upgrading your=20
  <BR>computer<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; without upgrading your OS, do =
you=20
  really think Intel or MS will be <BR>able<BR>&nbsp; =
to<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &gt; resist the temptation? Do you think a computer sold with windows=20
  <BR>should<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; allow the user to remove windows =
and=20
  install Linux cause I somehow <BR>think<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
that's the=20
  kind of limitations we are headed for.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Intel is going to have to include that =
type of=20
  tech to make Apple <BR>happy,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; especially in =
light=20
  of the recent news that OSX was running on non =
<BR>Apple<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &gt; PC's already...<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&gt;=20
  Geo.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; "Robert =
Comer"=20
  &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:bobcomer@mindspring.com">bobcomer@mindspring.com</A>&gt;=20
  wrote in message<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:430eed74@w3.nls.net">news:430eed74@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &gt;&gt; I don't know if any do yet, but they agreed to do drm =
hardware=20
  for<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; palladium<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt; just=20
  like intel did.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
  - Bob Comer<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &gt;<BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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