Text 6758, 453 rader
Skriven 2005-08-27 18:26:02 av Rich (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 6756 av Robert Comer (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: TPM
===============
From: "Rich" <@>
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I'm guessing your repeated mac osx references is aluding to apple's =
statements that they will support it only on apple systems combined with = the
reports that the dev systems have TPMs and some osx software = component uses
it. If so, that doesn't make a TPM a negative. It would = surely is a
positive if you wanted to run osx and irrelevant if you = didn't. I think the
negative to which you are trying to refer is with = osx which will not run on
the large number of computers that other = operating systems like Windows will.
Rich
"Robert Comer" <bobcomer@mindspring.com> wrote in message =
news:4310dbd2@w3.nls.net...
> What are the negatives of having a TPM?
None at the moment, unless you want to run OSX on a PC -- who knows =
about=20
Windows and other software in the future.
> Do you have or have you seen a recent thinkpad with one?
No, we don't buy that often.
>How about a recent toshiba laptop?
Never buy those.
>Are these lesser devices because of it?
Yes, and I'll watch for it and plan accordingly.
- Bob Comer
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:4310c98d@w3.nls.net...
I disagree.
What are the negatives of having a TPM?
Do you have or have you seen a recent thinkpad with one? How about =
a=20
recent toshiba laptop? Are these lesser devices because of it?
Rich
"Robert Comer" <bobcomer@mindspring.com> wrote in message=20
news:4310c52a$1@w3.nls.net...
> You don't have to use a TPM even if your computer has one.
Right now, yes, but in the future, I doubt that it's going to be =
optional.
Look at the beta x86 OSX -- it requires a specific TPM.
>If you just want a smartcard you could have had one for years.
I didn't say I wanted one, just that I maybe could live with in =
place of
TPM.
>A TPM builtin provides other benefits.
And negatives as well.
- Bob Comer
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:4310abaa@w3.nls.net...
You don't have to use a TPM even if your computer has one. If =
you just
want a smartcard you could have had one for years. A TPM builtin =
provides
other benefits.
Rich
"Robert Comer" <bobcomer@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:43108b95$1@w3.nls.net...
> VT is virtualization.
Yep, know that, it's my specialty.
>LT is security. Neither is what george likes to call DRM.
True.
>What he tries to spin as something sinister is the smart card =
like
>functionality (e.g. secure storage, hardware crypto) >provided by =
a TPM
>chip.
That's the one I don't like. A smartcard idea I maybe could live =
with,
but
it would have to be both optional for the OS and machine, and =
portable
between machines. Like a key basically, I carry it to whatever =
machine=20
I
happen to be using it at the time, rather than it being tied to a=20
specific
piece of hardware, and you should have the ability to own more =
than just
one
key.
- Bob Comer
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:430ff6af@w3.nls.net...
VT is virtualization. LT is security. Neither is what george =
likes=20
to
call DRM. What he tries to spin as something sinister is the =
smart card
like functionality (e.g. secure storage, hardware crypto) provided =
by a
TPM
chip.
Rich
"Robert Comer" <bobcomer@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:430fdaf8$1@w3.nls.net...
Yep, it looks like it's coming, probably not anything we can do =
about=20
it
either -- it's for the masses to decide about.
For now, no DRM media stuff for me at all, I refuse to use it. =
I=20
don't
do
any media other than broadcast TV on my PC. I'll probably get a =
new
processor soon, with VT, dual or quad core, and yes, DRM, but =
that
doesn't
mean I have to allow the DRM part to make any difference to what =
I=20
want
to
do.
Eventually there will probably be some computer/OS company that =
will
emerge
to satisfy our computing needs, but for entertainment, we're =
screwed
until
everyone else catches up and they revolt.
- Bob Comer
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:430fbaa3$1@w3.nls.net...
> All this DRM crap is nothing but a power grab so that =
technology
companies
> can enforce more restrictions on how we use technology in =
order to
extort
> more money for the same shit.
>
> Once it becomes possible to prevent you from upgrading your OS =
without
> upgrading your computer, or to prevent you from upgrading your
computer
> without upgrading your OS, do you really think Intel or MS =
will be
able
to
> resist the temptation? Do you think a computer sold with =
windows
should
> allow the user to remove windows and install Linux cause I =
somehow
think
> that's the kind of limitations we are headed for.
>
> Intel is going to have to include that type of tech to make =
Apple
happy,
> especially in light of the recent news that OSX was running on =
non
Apple
> PC's already...
>
> Geo.
>
> "Robert Comer" <bobcomer@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:430eed74@w3.nls.net...
>> I don't know if any do yet, but they agreed to do drm =
hardware for
> palladium
>> just like intel did.
>>
>> - Bob Comer
>
>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I'm guessing your repeated =
mac osx=20
references is aluding to apple's statements that they will support it = only
on=20
apple systems combined with the reports that the dev systems have TPMs = and
some=20
osx software component uses it. If so, that doesn't make a TPM a=20
negative. It would surely is a positive if you wanted to run osx = and=20
irrelevant if you didn't. I think the negative to which you are = trying
to=20
refer is with osx which will not run on the large number = of computers
that=20
other operating systems like Windows will.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Robert Comer" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:bobcomer@mindspring.com">bobcomer@mindspring.com</A>> = wrote
in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:4310dbd2@w3.nls.net">news:4310dbd2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>&g=
t; What=20
are the negatives of having a TPM?<BR><BR>None at the moment, unless =
you want=20
to run OSX on a PC -- who knows about <BR>Windows and other software =
in the=20
future.<BR><BR>> Do you have or have you seen a recent =
thinkpad=20
with one?<BR><BR>No, we don't buy that often.<BR><BR>>How about a =
recent=20
toshiba laptop?<BR><BR>Never buy those.<BR><BR>>Are these lesser =
devices=20
because of it?<BR><BR>Yes, and I'll watch for it and plan=20
accordingly.<BR><BR>- Bob Comer<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>"Rich" <@> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:4310c98d@w3.nls.net">news:4310c98d@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>&nbs=
p; =20
I disagree.<BR><BR> What are the negatives of having a=20
TPM?<BR><BR> Do you have or have you seen a recent =
thinkpad with=20
one? How about a <BR>recent toshiba laptop? Are these =
lesser=20
devices because of it?<BR><BR>Rich<BR><BR> "Robert Comer" <<A =
=
href=3D"mailto:bobcomer@mindspring.com">bobcomer@mindspring.com</A>> = wrote
in=20
message <BR><A=20
=
href=3D"news:4310c52a$1@w3.nls.net">news:4310c52a$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
=20
> You don't have to use a TPM even if your computer has =
one.<BR><BR> Right now, yes, but in the future, I doubt that =
it's going=20
to be optional.<BR> Look at the beta x86 OSX -- it =
requires a=20
specific TPM.<BR><BR> >If you just want a smartcard you could =
have=20
had one for years.<BR><BR> I didn't say I wanted one, just that =
I maybe=20
could live with in place of<BR> TPM.<BR><BR> >A TPM =
builtin=20
provides other benefits.<BR><BR> And negatives as =
well.<BR><BR> -=20
Bob Comer<BR><BR><BR> "Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:4310abaa@w3.nls.net">news:4310abaa@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>&nbs=
p; =20
You don't have to use a TPM even if your computer has one. If =
you=20
just<BR> want a smartcard you could have had one for =
years. A TPM=20
builtin provides<BR> other benefits.<BR><BR> =20
Rich<BR><BR> "Robert Comer" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:bobcomer@mindspring.com">bobcomer@mindspring.com</A>> = wrote
in=20
message<BR> <A=20
=
href=3D"news:43108b95$1@w3.nls.net">news:43108b95$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
=20
> VT is virtualization.<BR><BR> Yep, =
know=20
that, it's my specialty.<BR><BR> >LT is =
security. =20
Neither is what george likes to call DRM.<BR><BR> =20
True.<BR><BR> >What he tries to spin as something =
sinister is the smart card like<BR> =
>functionality (e.g.=20
secure storage, hardware crypto) >provided by a =
TPM<BR> =20
>chip.<BR><BR> That's the one I don't =
like. A=20
smartcard idea I maybe could live with,<BR> =
but<BR> it=20
would have to be both optional for the OS and machine, and=20
portable<BR> between machines. Like a key =
basically, I=20
carry it to whatever machine <BR>I<BR> happen to be =
using it=20
at the time, rather than it being tied to a =
<BR>specific<BR> =20
piece of hardware, and you should have the ability to own more than=20
just<BR> one<BR> =
key.<BR><BR> - Bob=20
Comer<BR><BR><BR> "Rich" <@> wrote in message =
<A=20
=
href=3D"news:430ff6af@w3.nls.net">news:430ff6af@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>&nbs=
p; =20
VT is virtualization. LT is security. Neither is what =
george likes=20
<BR>to<BR> call DRM. What he tries to spin as=20
something sinister is the smart card<BR> like =
functionality=20
(e.g. secure storage, hardware crypto) provided by a<BR> =20
TPM<BR> chip.<BR><BR> =20
Rich<BR><BR> "Robert Comer" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:bobcomer@mindspring.com">bobcomer@mindspring.com</A>> = wrote
in=20
message<BR> <A=20
=
href=3D"news:430fdaf8$1@w3.nls.net">news:430fdaf8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
=20
Yep, it looks like it's coming, probably not anything we can do about=20
<BR>it<BR> either -- it's for the masses =
to=20
decide about.<BR><BR> For now, no DRM =
media=20
stuff for me at all, I refuse to use it. I <BR>don't<BR> =20
do<BR> any media other than broadcast TV =
on my=20
PC. I'll probably get a new<BR> =
processor=20
soon, with VT, dual or quad core, and yes, DRM, but that<BR> =20
doesn't<BR> mean I have to allow the DRM =
part to=20
make any difference to what I <BR>want<BR> =20
to<BR> =
do.<BR><BR> =20
Eventually there will probably be some computer/OS company that=20
will<BR> emerge<BR> to =
satisfy=20
our computing needs, but for entertainment, we're screwed<BR> =20
until<BR> everyone else catches up and =
they=20
revolt.<BR><BR> - Bob=20
Comer<BR><BR><BR><BR> "Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote in =
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:430fbaa3$1@w3.nls.net">news:430fbaa3$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
=20
> All this DRM crap is nothing but a power grab so that=20
technology<BR> =
companies<BR> =20
> can enforce more restrictions on how we use technology in order=20
to<BR> extort<BR> > =
more=20
money for the same shit.<BR> =20
><BR> > Once it becomes possible =
to=20
prevent you from upgrading your OS=20
<BR>without<BR> > upgrading your =
computer, or=20
to prevent you from upgrading your<BR> =20
computer<BR> > without upgrading your =
OS, do=20
you really think Intel or MS will be<BR> =
able<BR> =20
to<BR> > resist the temptation? Do =
you think=20
a computer sold with windows<BR> =20
should<BR> > allow the user to remove =
windows=20
and install Linux cause I somehow<BR> =20
think<BR> > that's the kind of =
limitations we=20
are headed for.<BR> =20
><BR> > Intel is going to have to =
include=20
that type of tech to make Apple<BR> =20
happy,<BR> > especially in light of =
the=20
recent news that OSX was running on non<BR> =20
Apple<BR> > PC's=20
already...<BR> =20
><BR> >=20
Geo.<BR> =
><BR> =20
> "Robert Comer" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:bobcomer@mindspring.com">bobcomer@mindspring.com</A>> = wrote
in=20
message<BR> > <A=20
=
href=3D"news:430eed74@w3.nls.net">news:430eed74@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>&nbs=
p; =20
>> I don't know if any do yet, but they agreed to do drm =
hardware=20
for<BR> >=20
palladium<BR> >> just like intel=20
did.<BR> =20
>><BR> >> - Bob=20
Comer<BR> =
><BR> =20
><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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