Text 19594, 252 rader
Skriven 2006-05-05 16:29:06 av JOHNJWILSON (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av JIM HOLSONBACK
Ärende: And ANOTHER one!
========================

->  -> is one of the darlings of the anti-US left.
-> 
->  JO> Probably so but inaccuratly -- he's been sounding off long before
->  JO> Bush..
-> 
-> AFAICT he has been pretty consistently anti-US as far as foreign policy,
-> and is coming at things from so far to the left that he criticizes
-> democrat administrations as well.

Of his fuminations there is no end. :-)

Read a few articles, two books of his, interviewed him,

not all that knowledgable of him, but enough to know that
when someone calls him an idiot, hope dim for meaningful interchange.


-> 
-> Well, I didn't say that _all_ the left are anti-US, but I will say that
-> a _lot_ of those on the left are - - including some of the leftists
-> right here in Fido-land...

Anti current U.S. foreign policy is anti-US?

  We see some who would otherwise nominally be
-> pro-US whose overarching hatred of GWB leads them to wish that the
-> foreign policy of the  US will fail...

Ah. A distortion of schadenfreude. I suppose so. 
I think it has failed, is failing, but I take no pleasure in that. :-|

-> This is the mindset of those from whom we are hearing the calls for
-> trials in den Haag for 'war crimes', and for impeachment.
->
Silly excesses. The man should learn to underline, instead.
 
-> ...a president whose foreign policy has
-> liberated 60 million or so from oppressive regimes...

We shall see.

 
->  -> Perhaps you haven't read enough of his books where he gets into his
->  -> political views...

Her, as I say, two books. He is not a major part of my life. I don't
specilize in'his political philosophy




 

-> 
-> AFAICT being a demo means being united by a sense of shared victimhood
-> and being obsessed with revenge...

Well that's me so far...


, being Desparately desirous of regaining
-> political power, and willing to do or say most _anything_ in order to
-> advance that goal.

Sure, Anything that doesn't require money, attendance or effort.

  Being a repub means being rich and greedy, always
-> seeking financial gain at the expense of all the ordinary workingfolks

Damn right ! I;m with that! If you can't gring the faces of the poor
whose faces CASN you grind?

,
-> and being the locus of all extant government corruption. (Or so we hear)
->
WhaaaaT? 'Government' and 'Corruption' to gether in one sentence? I'm
Shocked!

-> 
->  JO> My family was firmly in favour of Landon, Wilkie and Dewey...
-> 
-> You've come a long way, baby.
->
Wilkie' wonderful dream  of "One World" , still wonderful, still a dream
-- still a long way to go, babe. :-)
 

->  JO> ...thinking about writing in Bill Mahr next time...
-> 
-> The one whose low-ratings show was cancelled after he accused the US
-> military of being cowards?...

He did that?

  _That_ Bill Maher?  You think Son of Otto
-> will be posting a MediaMatters hatchet job on him anytime soon?
-> 
I'm sorry. I'm lost. Last time I saw Mahy was on Larry King wheere I
thought him funny and made good sense. Ok. I'll change my choive. Oprah
for President. Bill Gate for VP!


-> 
-> Below is the short def. of libertarian socialist, which you mangled.
-> 
->  -> abolition of the State and of private control over the means of
->  -> production, considering both of these as unnecessary and harmful
->  -> institutions.
->
ok, thanks. Whew.

(I wonder who they would get to be in CHARGE of the abolition?)

 

-> 
->  JO> Corporate control of the means of production is not exactly
->  JO> worker-friendly ...but hey, a mixed economy is what we
->  JO> got...argument is about the mix...an enduring argument. Down
->  JO> with the capitalist bosses! Down with Unions!
->  JO> Yeach.
-> 
-> "Corporate control" isn't worker-friendly?  This is class struggle
-> nonsense.

Yes. I should have said 'entirely'...after all, it's called
'work'... 



  Can you name a company which has done well over the long
-> term that has the attitude that its employees are its worst enemies as
-> opposed to its most valuable asset?

No, no. Insead of 'entire;y' I should have said
All the time thinking of profit sharing consideration to
Union suggestions, 24/7.

We are NOT in disagreeent here :-)

 OTOH, I've more often seen employees
-> who take the attitude that 'the company is my enemy.'

This is stupidly true.

  I think a good
-> idea that _all_ workers own some stock - maybe thru their company 401-K
-> plan. The company my wife last worked for paid the company contrib. to
-> the 401-K in company stock. In general not a good idea to have too  much
-> of your retirement savings in stock of the company you work for, but the
-> combo if wishing that both you _and_ the company you work for to do well
-> financially is a good thing vice the 'us' vs. 'them' attitude you are
-> pointing to.
->
Exactly so and the history of my previou employer.
 
-> 
-> Hey, unless the wiki article is incorrect, this 'libertarian socialist'
-> thing is the way that Chomsky describes _himself_, whether you believe
-> him and them or not.

I stand informed.

-> 
->  -> For anarcho-syndacalism...
-> 
->  JO> Whew! For Whaaat?
-> 
->  -> , wiki says that the view is of labor unions as a
->  -> potential force for revolutionary social change, replacing
capitalism
->  -> and the state with a new society democratically self-managed by
workers.

Whee! That's all I want to know about that.
-> 

-> 
-> So you think throwing a bomb at the police is an OK thing

The Pinkertons? Come ON. Thr point was violence is a
great way for change to occur. Not the politest and pace
Ghandi...



, just as long
-> as the bomb-thrower has a positive social change in mind?

Exactly so! :-) Whipping those money-changer out of that temple was a
cause for change...uh....ok, so it wasn't mentioned again. 

Revolutionary War, then.


  'Hey, I think
-> I'll make and take a bomb, just in case the police tell us to disperse.'
-> And you say "sure" to this?
->
As a Jew in Nazi Germany? Mebbie. There are circumstances to fit
damn near any action.
 
-> I'll wager you'd not extend the same attitude of approval toward a
-> person who thought it would be a vehicle for positive social change to
-> lob a bomb at an abortion clinic. What's his name - - Rudolph?
->


actually that's a hard one. I find it impossible to believe what some
people
obviously sincerely believe, and we are supposed to be
a nation that supports, encourages, permits, boasts about that.
If I genually believed that multiple murders were being committed in a
place 
that I could lob a grenade into which would then be killing a few murderers
but saving the lives of thousands of as yuet undeveloped eternal souls... 

As a society we say "no, you don't get to lob that thing."
Was anyone hanged by mistake?

To what extent, Oh Walden Pond resident, do we resist and
disobey the law? Didn't Jefferson say that he thought a revolution every
fifteen years or so was a good idea? 


->  JO> 'democraticly self-managed by workers' :-)
->  JO> ...for about twenty minutes, until a Hoffa is 'elected'. :-)
-> 
-> Seems like if 'the workers' had such a better way to run an enterprise,
-> they could pool their resources and start or buy and run their own
-> companies.

I've often wondered about that. Compete and cooperate - opposits?


(Sharing)
 
-> ...What would you share/trade if I could smuggle you a jug of
-> $2.69 a gallon gas? A Cuban cigar?  A cheap jug of Canadian Mist?
->
I take the bus. Cuban cigars are sold everwhere around here.
I have a neighbor who is a wine-making hobbiest. He makes a beautuful
Pino-noir. I have a parking space which he now uses and I receive 
ten bottles of very good wine every month. Life is good.

With a view of boats on the water, snow on the mountain,
birds on the wing, and flowers everywhere.... It's a beautiful day
in Vancouver.
Life is good
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