Text 27429, 135 rader
Skriven 2007-02-23 19:06:18 av Ed Hulett (1:123/789.0)
     Kommentar till en text av VERN HUMPHREY (1:123/140)
Ärende: Presidential race
=========================
VERN HUMPHREY -> ED HULETT wrote:
 VH>>> What point was "clarified" by asking if an amendment could violate
 VH>>> itself?

 EH>> I was expecting an answer, but as you pointed out here, none was
 VH> forthcoming

 VH> The answer was, an amendment cannot violate itself.

I knew that, but I wanted you to say it.

 VH>>> How is it not an obstacle?  On the face of it, it says "You
 VH> can't get o
 VH>>> the ballot . . . "

 EH>> It stops professional politicians from running just to stay in Congress.

 VH> No it doesn't!  It is used by the majority party in the state to
 VH> "district out" sitting congressmen from the opposite party.

That hasn't happened here as far as US Congressional districts are concerned.

 EH>>>> That must be one of those east coast things.

 VH>>> Dead wrong -- get maps of your Congressional district in 1979, '89,
 VH>>> and '99 and see the differences.

 EH>> The 6th District is a large district encompassing Klallum, Jefferson,
 VH> Grays
 EH>> Harbor, Mason and parts of Kitsap and Pierce counties. The 7th
 VH> district is
 EH>> Seattle.

 EH>> There has been little change in the 6th district.

 VH> What do you mean "little change?"  It has been redistricted every ten
 VH> years -- if it were not so, Washington State Congressmen would not be
 VH> allowed to take their seats.

It has been redrawn, but not like you claim.

 VH>>> Some districts have linked two widely separated areas together by
 VH>>> running the boundaries up one shoulder of the interstate and
 VH> down the
 VH>>> other.

 EH>> That's nice. Not so with any of Washington's congressional districts.

 VH> Which is neither here nor there.  States MUST redistrict every ten
 VH> years.  And the state legislatures have virtually unlimited power as to
 VH> how they draw district lines.

Usually, the state legislature here is so evenly distributed between the two
major parties that Congressional districts don't get the wild gerrymandering
you have described.

 VH>>> Bingo!  And districts are often drawn to blatantly favor one
 VH> side or th
 VH>>> other -- going right back to Edbridge Gerry and the Gerrymander.

 EH>> There has only been one Republican representing the 6th district
 VH> since it wa
 EH>> originally drawn.

 VH> So?  I can show you districts that have never had a Republican.  But
 VH> that doesn't change the fact that districts have been drawn to
 VH> deliberately exclude a member of the other party.

Washington State is one of the more liberal states, but we don't get changes
like you claim.

 VH>>> And how do you propose to do that?  No law to date, in over 200
 VH> years
 VH>>> has prevented it.

 EH>> We need honest politicians. I know, I know that's an oxymoron.

 VH> Start by enforcing the Constitution.

Oh yeah, that'll make 'em honest.

 EH>>>> Minor changes.

 VH>>> But changes,  nevertheless.  And the degree of change is in the
 VH> hands o
 VH>>> the State Legislature.

 EH>> Right. The changes reflect population movement. Not some desire to
 VH> favor one
 EH>> party over another.

 VH> No.  In some cases you may be right, but there have been many egregious
 VH> redistricting acts -- Elbridge Gerry's Gerrymander being a classic
 VH> example.

You have no idea what you are talking about here in Washington.

 VH>>> You'd think that -- if you didn't understand the power the crooked
 VH>>> politicians have to thwart the people.

 EH>> Oh yeah, it's a conspiracy...

 VH> Do you think it's not?  You've seen things like Campaign Finance Reform
 VH> and you believe that INCREASES the power of the people?

What do you propose be done about it.

 VH>>> Then why support states putting obstacles to getting on the federal
 VH>>> ballot that are NOT in the Constitution?

 EH>> I oppose professional politicians who are just interested in power.

 VH> And yet you favor a tactic much used by those very politicians.  and one
 VH> which violates the Constitution.

A person living outside the district they want to represent is more likely to
be a professional politician than someone living inside that district.

Ed

-- 
"But the safety of the people of America against dangers from
foreign force depends not only on their forbearing to give
just causes of war to other nations, but also on their placing
and continuing themselves in such a situation as not to invite
hostility or insult; for it need not be observed that there are
pretended as well as just causes of war."

-- John Jay (Federalist No. 4)

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