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Text 8034, 244 rader
Skriven 2005-01-26 05:57:35 av John Hull (1:379/1.99)
   Kommentar till text 7999 av Darryl Perry (1:106/324)
Ärende: Re: Believing
=====================
25 Jan 05 14:26, Darryl Perry wrote to John Hull:

 DP> On 01-25-05, John Hull said...

 JH>> 24 Jan 05 23:35, Darryl Perry wrote to John Hull:
 JH>>  DP> Ok.  That's all well and good, John, but it's not solely a 
 JH>>  DP> 'DNC' phenomenon. If what you are saying that the Dems 
 JH>>  DP> pioneered, then the took the ball and ran with it.  NPR was 
 JH>>  DP> reporting that anybody that h even the slightest bit of 
 JH>>  DP> paraphanalia that opposed GWB, they were no permitted from 
 JH>>  DP> attending any of the local whistle-stop gatherings for Bush.  
 JH>>  DP> As you know, many of the campaign layovers occured virtually 
 JH>>  DP> n door to one another as the weeks wore on.  Many locals could
 JH>>  DP>  in fact both candidates in person.  They were reporting that 
 JH>>  DP> if somebody had attended a Kerry gathering and was wearing a 
 JH>>  DP> Kerry shirt, or even an Clinton sticker on their car, then 
 JH>>  DP> they were barred from access.
 JH>> 
 JH>> That's a lot of media BS.  I attended some of those rallies, and 
 JH>> so did ma of the people in this echo.  I never saw any such blatant
 JH>>  behavior, and I they didn't either.  MOST of the carping about 
 JH>> being turned away is coming from people who didn't want to follow 
 JH>> the security control procedures set to protect the president from 
 JH>> the numerous threats he received.  The Secre Service was taking no 
 JH>> chances at all, and anybody that even looked crossey at Bush was 
 JH>> gathered up and checked out - just as they should be.  That is
 JH>> their job, but you'd never know that if you relied on the media to 
 JH>> tell yo about it.

 DP> Being that I live in the Great State of Texas, which was not one 
 DP> of the
 DP> battle ground states, I did not have a lot of chances, if any to 
 DP> be able to
 DP> see either of the candidates in person like you were so lucky to 
 DP> have done. 
 DP> However, my only other option was to rely on the media to find out 
 DP> what it
 DP> was like.  While they showed alot of stuff from both camps, the 
 DP> overwelming
 DP> majority of items coming from the RNC camp was the same stuff that 
 DP> you can
 DP> find on their website.  That's the point I'm trying to make.  
 DP> While you can
 DP> argue up and down and six ways of sunday the the Dems feed talking 
 DP> points to
 DP> their constituants, it is clearly apparent that the RNC does that 
 DP> as well.

 JH>>  DP> They would go on to have soundbytes of many of the attendees 
 JH>>  DP> of these gatherings and it was all the same thing.  "Kerry's 
 JH>>  DP> a flip-flopper", "Kerry is a tax and spend liberal", "Kerry 
 JH>>  DP> is soft on defense".
 JH>> 
 JH>> He WAS a flip-flopper.  His record proved it.  His own campaign 
 JH>> staff has admitted it since the election.  "Tax and spend liberal" 
 JH>> is campaign rheto nothing more.  However, it hardly compares to the 
 JH>> Dems calling Republicans "right wing radicals" as if we were 
 JH>> Marxists or something.  And, finally, Kerry WAS soft on defense, 
 JH>> and his voting record in the senate proves it, to mention some of 
 JH>> the things he said during the campaign.

 DP> Kerry's record was given a deliberate spin by the RNC in order to 
 DP> justify the
 DP> labels given to him.  I don't believe that the Republicans calling 
 DP> Dems
 DP> 'leftists' or liberals or left-wing liberals is any kinder, yet it 
 DP> happens
 DP> quite often, in here and other places.

 JH>>  JH>>  DP> into the ideas thrown around here by many 
 JH>>  JH>>  DP> conservatives.  What I can' abide by is liars and 
 JH>>  JH>>  DP> deception, and spin.  The media and the RNC and it's 
 JH>>  JH>>  DP> members are highly skilled at all th
 JH>> 
 JH>>  JH>>  DP> It is for this reason that can't abide by GWB, because 
 JH>>  JH>>  DP> he seems me to embody all those traits
 JH>>  JH>> 
 JH>>  JH>> There have been a number of books written by prominent 
 JH>>  JH>> journalists, most o whom are liberals and/or Democrats 
 JH>>  JH>> detailing the bias toward the left in t major media outlets.  
 JH>>  JH>> A study done right after the 2nd Clinton election fo that 
 JH>>  JH>> 90% of reporters are left leaning.  That hasn't changed one 
 JH>>  JH>> bit, and anything, its worse today.  There has been a lot of 
 JH>>  JH>> discussion about it th last cycle - how can you have missed 
 JH>>  JH>> it?
 JH>> 
 JH>>  DP> Prolly because every time I turned on the news I saw Bush 
 JH>>  DP> citing the same old RNC talking points that I had heard the 
 JH>>  DP> day before.  The
 JH>> news 
 JH>>  DP> kept giving that same stuff the air time.  I watched and kept 
 JH>>  DP> track, noticed that Bush was getting far and away the most 
 JH>>  DP> air time.  I hear
 JH>> 
 JH>>  DP> from morning zoo radio shows, and afternoon DJ's.  With that 
 JH>>  DP> kind of coverage, it's hard for me to believe that the media 
 JH>>  DP> is 'left leaning
 JH>> 
 JH>> What you saw was Bush and his people staying on message and 
 JH>> talking about issues, articulating what Bush wanted to accomplish 
 JH>> in the next four years

 DP> No; it was like those morning zoo's and the DJ's were plugged in 
 DP> to the RNC
 DP> mothership.  You can't have it both ways.  You can't say that the 
 DP> DNC feeds
 DP> talking points to it's people without opening yourself up to the 
 DP> fact that
 DP> the RNC does exactly what you say the DNC does.

 JH>> On the major TV networks, Kerry got the most face time, except for 
 JH>> FoxNews which was pretty evenly divided.  Toward the end, however, 
 JH>> the media sort turned on Kerry and began to question some of what 
 JH>> he was saying, but that Kerry's own fault - another thing that his 
 JH>> people have admitted after the fact.  The media has it own agenda 
 JH>> which coincides most of the time with t left as far as ideology 
 JH>> goes, but like sharks, if they sense blood in the water they will 
 JH>> turn on their own in a microsecond.  Kerry shot himself in foot 
 JH>> numerous times during the campaign, and that is what the press 
 JH>> reacte to.

 JH>>  JH>> There's a big difference between talking about the issues, 
 JH>>  JH>> and telling som the most scurrilous lies I've ever heard.  
 JH>>  JH>> Remember when Gore's people put ads in Missouri and how the 
 JH>>  JH>> GOP was going to prevent blacks from voting?  
 JH>> 
 JH>>  DP> No.  I don't remember that.  I guess I wasn't plugged in to 
 JH>>  DP> the mother ship
 JH>>  DP> that day :)
 JH>> 
 JH>>  DP> I do remember however that there were radio ads from Charlton 
 JH>>  DP> Heston that
 JH>>  DP> if the Democrats won, they were going to take away our guns.  
 JH>>  DP> Is that one of
 JH>>  DP> the lies you were talking about?
 JH>> 
 JH>> Do you deny that Sarah Brady, Charlie Schumer, Barbara Boxer and 
 JH>> the rest wouldn't happily get rid of all the guns if they could?  
 JH>> There is a ton of evidence proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that 
 JH>> guns do NOT contribute to crime, and in fact do just the opposite - 
 JH>> yet you still see prominent Dems blathering about gun control.  
 JH>> Bill Clinton even admitted that gun owning Democrats helped defeat 
 JH>> Democrats running for the House in 94.  That's the year they lost 
 JH>> it by the way.  Before you go too far down this road, let m tell 
 JH>> you that Charleton Heston is one of my heroes, that I am an 
 JH>> Endowment Life member of the NRA, and that gun control issues bear 
 JH>> heavily on who I for in EVERY election.  I know from fighting this 
 JH>> battle for 30 years that Dems would outlaw guns in a heartbeat if 
 JH>> they could.

 DP> Dude.  You state on one hand that the Dems use fear tactics to get 
 DP> voters to
 DP> vote for them.  I cite to you a similar fear tactic that the Reps 
 DP> pulled,
 DP> and you get all defensive about it.  You don't hear me calling for 
 DP> gun
 DP> control or anything of the sort.  I only used that as an example 
 DP> of where
 DP> the RNC does in fact use fear tactics to get people to vote for 
 DP> them.

 JH>>  JH>> how about when the DNC put TV ads out saying that 
 JH>>  JH>> Republicans were going t keep seniors from getting their 
 JH>>  JH>> medicine and force them out of their homes
 JH>>  JH>> 
 JH>>  JH>> I'm not talking about the normal campaign rhetoric that both 
 JH>>  JH>> sides engage I'm talking about deliberate lies designed to 
 JH>>  JH>> literally scare the hell out voters.  Lies designed to make 
 JH>>  JH>> people so fearful of the other party they w completely 
 JH>>  JH>> ignore the fact that all the promises made to them are never 
 JH>>  JH>> ke and haven't been for decades.  I won't stand for that 
 JH>>  JH>> from my side, and I sure won't accept it from the left.
 JH>> 
 JH>>  DP> But that's exactly what Cheney did!!  He said that if Kerry 
 JH>>  DP> were to be elected, that we were sure to be attacked.  He 
 JH>>  DP> retracted it a f days later but the effect was the same.  Tell 
 JH>>  DP> me that that is not a l designed to make people fearful.
 JH>> 
 JH>> And he's right.  I believe that Kerry is so weak that it would've 
 JH>> made us prime target.

 DP> So while the Dems use fear tactics, the Reps tell only the truth?  
 DP> A lot of
 DP> people, Dems included feel that Bush is a chickenhawk and that 
 DP> he's
 DP> deliberately or unwittingly putting us in harms way.  Regardless 
 DP> of whether
 DP> you feel he's right or not, it still is what it is; a fear tactic.

 JH>>  DP> The bottom line is that the 'liberals' or the Dems or the DNC 
 JH>>  DP> do not have a lock on feeding talking points to it's 
 JH>>  DP> followers.  You say
 JH>> 
 JH>>  DP> won't stand that coming from your side, but I haven't seen 
 JH>>  DP> you even acknowledge that it does in fact happen, so that 
 JH>>  DP> makes me somewhat skeptical.  You say you don't give a damn 
 JH>>  DP> about what the DNC has to s but I don't see hold the RNC up to 
 JH>>  DP> the light and scrutinize it either
 JH>> 
 JH>> I am not on the list, by my choice, to receive email/fax/updates 
 JH>> from the and since I am a registered Republican, I don't such 
 JH>> things from the Dems.

 DP> I'm not a registered Rep, yet I still got campaign mail from the 
 DP> RNC.  In
 DP> Texas, the voter registration does not collect party affiliation 
 DP> information.

 JH>> But, I do watch all the political news shows on TV on Sunday, and 
 JH>> on the internet.  As I said, MOST Republicans do not engage in the 
 JH>> sort of behavi I'm talking about.  I know they get *accused of it* 
 JH>> all the time, but that isn't the same thing, is it?  My Republican 
 JH>> ideals I learned back in the d of Barry Goldwater and haven't much 
 JH>> changed since then.  Like I said, I do always agree with the GOP, 
 JH>> but I don't disagree much either.

 DP> I'm going to be up front here and say that I avoid the TV news 
 DP> programs with
 DP> a passion.  I rely on print media or radio only.  When I want 
 DP> information, I
 DP> go out an look for it; I don't allow myself to get bombarded with 
 DP> it.

There are a couple of things I notice in your reply that you may or may not be
aware of.  One, when Dems refer to Republicans they use terms like "right wing
extremists" or "radical right wing" and so on.  Republicans, as a rule, don't
use such modifiers when they speak of Democrats.  Dems do it so much, I don't
think they even know they're doing it anymore.

The other thing is that if you don't watch the political shows, then you are
missing out on a lot of the information that is just under the surface.  You
can't pick up that kind of stuff from radio or the papers, only from hearing
the actual voice and seeing the person speak.  Facial expression and body
language speak volumes, often far more than the words they utter.  There are
also some very astute political commentators like Brit Hume, and Bill Crystal
you miss if you don't watch.

John 

America:  First, Last, and Always!
Go to www.madgorilla.us for all your Domain Name Services at the lowest rates.

--- Msged/386 TE 05
 * Origin: We are the Watchmen of our own Liberty! (1:379/1.99)