Text 11254, 84 rader
Skriven 2009-05-18 18:28:00 av Dave Drum (1:124/311)
     Kommentar till en text av John Fitzgerald
Ärende: Torture - A Realistic Vie
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-=> JOHN FITZGERALD wrote to DAVE DRUM <=-

 DD>   I said that they haven't been "scientifically tested".
 DD>   Why do you keep hammering on that? Is it an attempt
 DD>   to add credence to your otherwise specious arguments?

 JF>   No time for your side-winding.  I am addressing what they have
 JF> said... not what you have said.  THEY have said none of the Army's
 JF> techniques have been "scientifically tested".

 DD>  Now who is "sidewinding"? I quoted what the authors said - so it is
 DD>  automatically MY words?

 JF>   You have a reading problem.  Didn't say they were your words.  Again,
 JF> in the very passage you are, uh. 'responding' to, I said...
 JF> "THEY claim nothing has been scientifically tested..."

You said "JF>   No time for your side-winding" which in any reasonable school
of thought was addressed to me. So, apparently you thought they WERE my words. 

 JF>   The 'scientifically tested' claim is a ruse.  What are they going to
 JF> do in a 'scientific test' that they haven't  done already?
 JF> Do you even know?

 DD>   Get a clue, John. Or is your love for the expediency of
 DD>   torture and inflicting pain so great that you cannot?

 JF>   Sure Dave, and all those who support our troops love to shoot and
 JF> kill people for no reason.  So much for your 6th grade analysis.
 JF> If you had any real argument, you wouldn't have to resort to your
 JF> mud-pie throwing.

 JF>   From that point on they can't make claims about what
 JF>   works and doesn't work if they are going
 JF>   to stick to that original contention.

 DD>  Yes, they can. Because they have observed which methods
 DD>  give reliable information and which do not.

 JF>   That's what they claim.   Now ask yourself why would they keep using
 JF> these techniques all of these years if they didn't work.  Duh?

Because the people who use them are a bunch of sadistic bastards ... mostly.

 JF>   And just how do you expect to get any info from these
 JF>   characters if they know you will never even make them
 JF>   uncomfortable, or 'abuse' them in any way?   By boring
 JF>   them to death with silly lectures?

 DD>   Why, John, by winning their trust (or at least tolerance).

 JF>   You must really think their captives are pushovers and morons.
 JF>   If they know you're gonna goo-goo them and place 'nice', and never
 JF>   'abuse'  them, or even take their blanket away, because there's
 JF>   always gonna be some long-nosed pencil-pusher around to see that
 JF>   that doesn't happen,  then - WHY - should they turn on their
 JF>   fellow men and go against the  cause they believe in?
 JF>   Can you explain WHY??

 JF>     As I thought, you can't explain why.  Once again Dave, tell us why
 JF> a dedicated prisoner is going to give up info' by just talking to him.
 JF> Once again Dave, if a prisoner knows you will never "abuse" him, not
 JF> even take his blanket away, tell us why he should turn on his own
 JF> people. Your PR piece didn't/couldn't tell us why, so we'll wait for
 JF> your take on the issue.   Tell us why, Dave.  Aside from your cut and
 JF> paste attempts, at dealing with this issue your whole approach has been
 JF> partisan, emotional and pathetically naive.

John, I and others have explained it over and over again. You can't (or won't)
learn from that - because it doesn't agree with your pre-conceived notions of
what works or is expedient.

ENJOY!!!

From Uncle Dirty Dave's Kitchen
Home of YAHOOOOAHHHH Hot Sauce & Hardin Cider 

A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never
learned to walk forward.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt 

... A liberal is a man too broadmined to take his own side in a quarrel.
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