Text 1785, 123 rader
Skriven 2006-07-20 01:04:00 av BOB KLAHN (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av BOB ACKLEY
Ärende: prescription problems
=============================
 BA> Replying to a message of BOB KLAHN to BOB ACKLEY:

 DC>>>>> Nope.  Public education probably should have been included as
 DC>>>>> one of the Bill of Rights.

 BA>>>>> I disagree, it's not a proper function of the federal government.
 BA>>>>> Or, FTM, of state governments, either.  And that includes
 BA>>>>> providing funding.

 BK>>  I understand why you think it's not a function of the federal
 BK>>  govt, though I disagree - but - why not the state government?

 BA> Actually that would depend on the individual states'
 BA> constitutions.  Most of which, I suspect, make no mention
 BA> of an education function.

 I thought you were arguing the principle, not the law.

 The Ohio State Constitution mandates the state provide a quality
 education. The Ohio Supreme court long ago ruled the state was
 failing to fulfill their constitutional mandate, and that the
 system of financing schools was at fault and was, therefor,
 unconsitutional.

 The Republican state legislature and the republican governors
 have ignored those rulings.

 BA>>> Note that colleges and universities are now providing
 BA>>> education equivalent to that of community colleges decades
 BA>>> ago, community colleges are functioning as high schools
 BA>>> did, etc. etc.

 BK>>  Are they? Have you seen what kids are doing in high school these
 BK>> days? When my daughters started high school I wanted to know why  a
 BK>> high school freshman needs a $100 graphing calculator.

 BA> Because s/he can't do the math.  They only know how to push
 BA> the buttons to get the answer.

 Didn't you see where I said it was a $100 graphing calculator?
 You can do ordinary math on a $5 four banger with square root
 and percent. So why the $100 graphing calculator?

 I use a more expensive calculator, not because I do harder math,
 but because it's easier on my eyes to have a bigger display.

 Oh, and the College Board reports say students who ues
 calculators regularly get higher SAT scores than those who
 don't. Even back when I was in High School we had slide rules,
 the calculators of the day.

 BK>>  Now days they do reports that require internet research the way
 BK>>  we did book reports. I think they are pushing ahead too far.
 BK>>  Which is why I think the basics get short shrift, too much
 BK>>  trying to push for the moon.

 BA> I have for years contended that the internet has no place
 BA> in the educational system through the 12th grade.  The

 I might give it room in the upper end, but I agree on the lower
 ends. Ok, I would allow for internet news broadcasts, and
 foreign language programing for language study.

 BA> reason is that there is an unbelievable amount of cr*p out
 BA> there that is flatly not true, and most kids short of
 BA> college age (and some over college age) don't have the
 BA> ability to distinguish what is from what isn't.  Oddly

 Another reason. Mine was it is just too much of a distraction
 from what they should learn.

 BA> enough, Cliff Stoll made a similar observation years ago in
 BA> his book 'Silicon Snake Oil.'

 Ok, I'll also conceed on Hubble Space Telescope pictures, in
 science class, for limited purposes. And limited times.

...

 BK>>  Have you ever read any of the letters from people who lived back
 BK>> then? They are uniformly poor grammatically. Spelling also bad.
 BK>> Unless they are from someone from the upper class or a teacher  etc.

 BA> Interesting.  My sister has several letters written by our
 BA> paternal great-grandfather,
 BA> who passed on somewhere around 1920.  The spelling and
 BA> grammar is quite good in them.

 And just what did he do for a living? Teacher? Upper class
 something? Lawyer? Business owner?

 Most likely not a farmer or hourly worker.

 BK>>   Also, remember, it wasn't until WW2 that even half our young
 BK>>   people got a high school diploma.

 BK>>  Only a few of the dedicated got one around 1900, and before.

 BA> Of course, it wasn't really necessary in order to hold a
 BA> job back then.  In point of fact, for some jobs it isn't
 BA> necessary *now*.

 True on both points. Though I would say high school level is
 necessary for most. Though in Europe and Japan the high school
 level may shift to trade schools.

 BS>    I don't know if you've ever heard of
 BA> J.R. Simplot, he's a potato farmer that landed a contract
 BA> to supply McDonald's with potatoes half a century or so
 BA> ago.  His net worth is/was well into eight or nine digits.
 BA> He dropped out of school at about age 12 and went to
 BA> work.

 Half a century ago puts him in the range where the high school
 diploma was not all that common. Just past the point where it
 went to 50%.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

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