Text 6174, 106 rader
Skriven 2008-01-26 20:51:40 av Richard Webb (1:116/901.0)
   Kommentar till text 6132 av Bob Klahn (1:124/311)
Ärende: 35 Years after Roe
==========================
HI Bob,

Bob Klahn wrote in a message to Richard Webb:

 RW> difference, the mother or other responsible parties knew
 RW> that bringing this life to fruition was extremely
 RW> irresponsible at that time.

BK>  Or inconvenient. Or expensive.

true, but when inconvenient or expensive usually it's the child that bears the
brunt.

 RW> I'd venture a guess that most
 RW> of these would have ended up as wards of the state, causing
 RW> further overburdening of the criminal justice and social
 RW> service systems.

BK>  I'd venture a guess that most would not. Most by far. And even 
BK> fewer need to be. If all abortion were stopped, the biggest  effect
BK> would be the birth of many children, into a life pretty  much like
BK> that of those who would have been born anyway.

BK>  Which is why I am a democrat, though pro-life.

I'm pro choice, because it's the better option.  EVen better is to educate
young folks on birth control methods, and make them more reliable and as easy
to use in the heat of the moment as possible.  Wish that abortion was totally
unnecessary, and though not in conformance with my religious views I can not
make decisions for others.

 TR>> Abortion on demand cannot be seen in isolation from social
 TR>> breakdown.

BK>>  True.

 RW> Again agreed, but one has to look at other factors, many of
 RW> which are economic. A child whose parents must spend more
 RW> time outside the home working and who is raised by the
 RW> microwaved frozen dinner and the TV set will not have the
 RW> moral foundations on which to build a good citizen.
 RW> Parenting in and of itself is a more than full time job.

BK>  Which is why the drive to the bottom, as exemplified by
BK>  Wallmart, IMO, is one of the big forces driving the decline of 
BK> this country.

YEt we keep encouraging it in the name of short term profits.  That balance
sheet  dictates all our  decisions.

 RW> We contribute to the "breakdown of society" when we raise
 RW> children to not consider how their actions impact others.

BK>  We do not raise children that way. We fail to raise them the  right
BK> way. Largely due to the causes you cite above.

Different definitions of the same thing.  You say glass half full, I say glass
half empty.

 RW> we prevent said breakdown when we teach our young people to
 RW> think critically and not just cram a few facts into their
 RW> heads and leave them to go their own way.

BK>  I see a big part being in the breakdown of the extended family. 
BK> When Reagan said the unemployed should vote with their feet,  move
BK> to where the jobs were, he contributed to that breakdown. 

BK>  The need is to bring jobs to where the people are. We need to  keep
BK> extended families together, as they have the best influence  on
BK> children and their development. Just my opinion.

Again agreed, the extended family is one of the reasons I formed the values I
did.  My grandparents were as big a part of my upbringing as my parents were.

 RW> Since the
 RW> education system has not been prepared to do this it's the
 RW> parents' job.  IN the past this has been an assumption
 RW> within the educational sector, and often still is. YEt many
 RW> parents are unable or unwilling to take on this vital role.

BK>  What you are describing starts with the parents pre-school, but 
BK> should continue into the schools. It's a life long process. 

But it doesn't start when the kids are dumped off at day care and plunked in
front of a television set.  IT never begins to happen.  IN extreme cases it
ends up with cases like COlumbine.

BK>  The breakdown of society is more a matter of pitting people 
BK> against each other, IMO. And the cure is to bring people to work 
BK> together to build society. However, when a growing segment of  our
BK> population sees their portion of society declining, being  washed
BK> away under their feet, they lose their committment to the  rest of
BK> society.


AS long as it's in the economic interests of a few with all the resources
though it's bound to continue.  Frank HErbert's "Hydraulic despotism" at work.
In the desert the man who controls the water hole will be king.



Regards,
           Richard
... A good captain is hoisting his first drink in a bar when the storm hits.
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+
 * Origin: Radio REscue net operations BBS       (1:116/901)