Text 6972, 188 rader
Skriven 2008-07-11 14:43:14 av Richard Webb (1:116/901.0)
Kommentar till text 6969 av Bob Klahn (1:124/311)
Ärende: The Black Experience
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Hi BOb,
Bob Klahn wrote in a message to Richard Webb:
BK>> Chain of custody applies to a set of guidlines intended to
BK>> insure the evidence was the same taken from the crime scene. I do
BK>> not believe the samples were ever out of the custody of the
BK>> appropriate people, only that they didn't run it straight from the
BK>> crime scene to the lab.
ROger that, and unlikly but ...
RW> True enough, but then you've got to document this. THe
RW> question isn't so much as did they as would there have been
RW> a possible opportunity to taint the evidence. Chain of
RW> custody removes *any* and all doubt. CHain of custody has
RW> broken quite a few prosecutions last few years iirc.
BK> If they didn't have a sample of OJ's blood, there was no chance to
BK> taint the evidence. As to documenting, just have the cops who
BK> handled the samples write it up.
That's it, and iirc what they didn't do.
IF for example you are manager for a performer and have engaged my remote audio
truck to record performer's gig somewhere at the end of the show when balance
is paid a hard disk drive with the performance audio is handed over.
Now as manager for the performer, you weren't even at the show. YOu've been on
the phone most of the day after all handling business for him and other
clients. HOwever, the producer of the intended album project was present with
us in the mobile control room all evening, and had a bank draft for the balance
due. sO, at the end of the evening, she hands me bank draft, I hand her hard
disk. I also ask her to sign a piece of paper which states that she did indeed
receive hard disk of your client's performance. Later on if material doesn't
show up or gets lost and you call me and ask after it, I or my office person
can tell you who took possession of the material. THe chain of custody of
evidence in criminal cases *must* be extensively documented and all the i's
dotted and t's crossed. Failure to do so can damage a case as thoroughly as can
a confession obtained under duress, or failure to provide a subject the MIranda
warnings. IF you've ever been arrested in the last 30 years you know that when
the officer arresting you reads you that little card which has the patter we
all know from TV cop shows so well you must sign the card afterword. THIs
indicates that you *were* told. IF they video or audiotape your interview
chances are good the Miranda patter will be repeated. even though you signed
the card, the I's are dotted, t's crossed. YOu were properly mirandized.
BK>> If the gun was registered to the deceased it would be hard to say
BK>> it was dropped by the cop. DNA can't just be dropped, it had to
BK>> come from OJ.
RW> true, somewhat different, most known criminals would *not*
RW> be carrying a registerd firearm, and you can be sure the
RW> throwaway the cop is carrying for just this purpose ain't
RW> registered anywhere either <g>.
BK> Yeah, but DNA is naturally registered to the person it came from.
True, but I have the suspect's dna, I got him/her to voluntarily give me that
little swab from inside the cheek. NOw, were I really wanting to not hassle
with this and I"m an overworked lab rat and I want to lighten my load, just use
the pointers shown by the dna swab I got and ... YOu can guess the rest.
AGain I have my doubts that actually happened in this case, but that's why we
have such provisions as documented proven chain of custody, etc.
YOu don't follow the rules, even the guy you're sure did the dirty deed's gonna
walk, because you didn't follow the rules. Many jurists will tell you that the
thorny part of all these protections is that every now and then they allow the
guilty to get off. O.J. was one of those instances.
BK>> That's when you are less likely to have problems. They are more
BK>> likely to come to help you.
BK> ...
BK>> That won't be for an earth quake or storm. That will be
BK>> doomsday.
RW> YOu might be right, but just in case I survive it, I"m
RW> prepared.
BK> Yeah, but try not to practice too much beforehand.
Yah, don't need to do that, except for he practice that makes me more effective
in assisting my neighbors. MIster wInchester is pretty much a point in the
general direction and fire sort of thing <g>.
BK>> You are raising issues not part of the question. Think of it this
BK>> way. If the police have reason to believe a killer is still in the
BK>> neighborhood they may want to come into your house to look for him.
BK>> He could be there without your knowledge. Or you could be lying to
BK>> the police because he threatened your family. Or because he is part
BK>> of your family.
RW> CHances are if he were hiding in my house I'd know it. SEe
RW> reference to gun collecttion and ROttweiler.
BK> Ok, the dog might warn you. The gun collection is little help if
BK> you don't know he's there.
NOpe, but when dog sounds off gun collection is quite handy. Lady love and I
can each be armed in seconds. CHances are good if killer is alive he's being
nicely held for the man when he arrives <g>. THat is, if he's stupid enough to
still think he wants to come in. HIS best option is to pick another hiding
place, which is just what I want. Take it on down the road, leave me alone
<g>.
BK>> In an emergency they may be a bit brusque because they have little
BK>> time and a lot to do and lives at stake.
RW> True enough, and usually I'll have observed the goings-on
RW> enough to understand this. YEs I'll accompany said officer
RW> disrespect is another thing altogether. IF I"m working
RW> avessel in trouble on 14300 khz and providing the vital
RW> link for the skipper with the coasties and you come on and
RW> ask if the frequency is in use chances are I'm going to be
RW> rather abrupt with you, but I"m sitll not going to forget
RW> to tell you thank you for asking.
BK> I called the coast guard one time when they were working a
BK> difficult to reach small boat. They told me emergency
BK> communications were in progress, no further explanation. I told
BK> them I could receive both sides clearly and could relay. Which I
BK> did.
YEp we do quite a bit of this on 14.3 mhz. WE've developed a good working
relationship with USCG.
BK>> Which is not unreasonable, and likely excessive on your part. I
BK>> have not known the police to be unreasonable when I dealt with
BK>> them.
RW> You haven't lived in inner city NEw ORleans then <grin>.
RW> THese guys take rude and gestapo tactics to a whole new
RW> level just to find a homeboy with a dime bag of crack in
RW> his pocket. IF you recall, my wife and I managed five
RW> apartment buildings in inner city NEw ORleans. I think
RW> they give classes in how to be rude to citizens as part of
RW> training down there.
BK> I had forgotten that part.
And they do. REcall one day my wife and I eating our lunch, office at the time
for apartment buildings was our living room until they actually set us up a
regular office in one of the other buildings. Uniformed officer walks up to my
van, starts trying keys in the doors. I come outside, ask him what he thinks
he's doing. HE hems haws and stammers about busting some guy who had FOrd truck
keys in his pocket but he wouldn't say where his vehicle was. HEnce they were
going through the neighborhood trying every FOrd van or truck they found. I
explained quite forcefully that this was our van, he was *not* welcome to look
inside even if the key opened the door. MEanwhile the neighbors were out on the
streets and moving closer. COp decided discretion being the better part of his
safety he'd move on down the street and try his acquired keys in somebody
else's FOrd.
RW> Believe it or not, I have some friends that are officers of
RW> the law, and they're welcome in my home any time they come
RW> here. THere are a couple of cops locally I know from my
RW> work with the local emergency operations center. ONe of
RW> them knocks on the door chances are good we're not going to
RW> have to go through the bit with the verification of the
RW> badge number etc. because I know who he is.
BK> Hey Joe, nice to see you. What? You wanna ask some questions? Ok,
BK> show me your ID.
BK> I know you're my brother, but you gotta show ID!
YEp, and they *know* I'm that way about it. Chances are that if another cop
wants to have a conversation with me that I don't know and one of them learns
of it he's going to suggest he comes along, just to make introductions and
smooth the waters a bit.
NOw consider WIllie sUtton, the notorious bank robber. One of his favorite
disguises was that of a beat cop. BUy a uniform at a custome supply place,
carry a portable scanner so the unsuspecting citizen hears usual police radio
traffic, look and act the part. Iow MR. officer I don't know, prove your bona
fides by providing me some info I can verify with your agency, tell me what you
want. IF your request is reasonable glad to help. IF you're on a fishing
expedition better have enough evidence to think you've got the catch of the day
by getting that piece of paper. sImple, straightforward, no games.
Regards,
Richard
... Preparation, knowledge, and discipline can deal with any form of danger.
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Radio REscue net operations BBS (1:116/901)
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