Text 6992, 117 rader
Skriven 2008-07-19 14:41:03 av Richard Webb (1:116/901.0)
   Kommentar till text 6983 av Bob Klahn (1:124/311)
Ärende: census, was the black exp
=================================
Hi BOb,

Bob Klahn wrote in a message to Richard Webb:

BK>> proficiency tests will tell them how much people are learning.

 RW> THere again, that's my point.  And, if the local folks are
 RW> that interested, they'll get involved.  They'll attend

BK>  The point is, the govt doesn't even know what is happening if  they
BK> don't ask.
True, but as part of education funding the state and local districts can be
compelled to provide this information.  Imho a better barometer of how the
schools are doing than a box or two filled out on a census form. THe census
data can show me if I"m tabulating such data how well local schools did in the
past. HOwever, I want to know what's happening there now.  THe most recent
standardized test score averages etc. will tell me much more, much quicker. By
the time that data percolates through the system and comes out the back end
it's already quite old.

BK>>>  They don't get your name, but they may build a railroad terminal
BK>>> or a bus station if they find the numbers are growing enough to
BK>>> justify it. Or *NOT* put up a big box store if the demographics  are
BK>>> wrong.

 RW>> Yah but that they can get from numbers alone.  I've been

BK>>  Demographics include income levels, and personal preferences.  For
BK>> example, everyone knows fundamentalist Christians wouldn't  shop at
BK>> Victoria's Secret. (hint: humor)

 RW> TO some point, but there are enough ways to track that.
 RW> Look at the institutions that *are* flourishing, e.g.
 RW> churches, synagogues, merchants. THey tell you more about
 RW> the community.  WHat religion am I?  NOne of your business
 RW> MR. census taker, I'm a free thinking man who believes in
 RW> my "right to be let alone."  That's what religion I am.

BK>  What religion you claim may have nothing to do with what church 
BK> you attend. Nor what churches are flourishing.

True enough, the denomination my wife and I choose to support doesn't exist in
this part of TEnnessee.  There are two institutions that are part of that one
in MEmphis, a better than 100 mile round trip for us if we chose to attend on
Sunday morning. sOme little AM station in ARkansas seems to carry church
services from a similar institution on Sunday mornings however, and sometimes
we'll tune in and listen to it.

 RW>> quite involved over the years, especially back in the '80's
 RW>> when very active with a blind activist group in advocacy
 RW>> work for improved mass and public transit systems.  Plain
 RW>> numbers will or should tell them what they need to know.

BK>>  Ah, but how many of that number are blind?
AS noted, not many, but the local transit folks saw us as a darned good
barometer of how well the system served the residents.

 RW> True, but how many of that number will use good transport
 RW> systems if they're available. BUild it, make it accessible
 RW> to the commuters by serving their neighborhoods and

BK>  Without the basic numbers you have no place to even start.

True, but here's one for you.  YOu know how many people reside in, say a
neighborhood of a city. How many vehicles are registered there?  IF I step
aboard the bus with my monthly pass and flash it at the driver he touches a
button, the little counter says beep and my nose is counted.  IF I shove a
token in the slot, the little counter says beep.  IF I shove the price of a
fare in the box, same thing. AT the end of the day the bean counters can easily
count riders.

BK>>  You took that left turn a little fast, you know. And don't cross
BK>> against the light next time.

 RW> Yah, at least in CHina they're really making some strides,
 RW> cameras on lamp posts, facial recognition software.  A
 RW> scary thought.

BK>  Yep. And it's originating here.

SOme companies are making some pretty big bucks selling such technology to
CHina.  Beta test it there, deploy it at home later.  Scary thought don't you
think?

 RW>> activities. AFter all, my government has told me that
 RW>> safeguarding my privacy and my constitutional rights is
 RW>> quite low on their priority list.

BK>>  Ah, as I said above... you already knew that.
 RW> OH I sure did, and I could easily find myself in a trick
 RW> bag.  To wit, the type of discussion this thread spun off
 RW> from. Massage the data points and stats enough you can make
 RW> them show any damned thing you like, at least at a cursory
 RW> glance. E.g. A majority of junkes started with marijuana.
 RW> All alcoholics began life drinking milk.

BK>  I long ago learned more addicts start with tobacco than with MJ. 

Probably true, adiction is said to be more of a genetic thing, and i can
believe it.

 RW> Overly simplistic examples above, but I think you see my
 RW> point here.  Massage enough data points and draw your own
 RW> conclusions, pick the data points that reinforce your
 RW> conclusion, ignore the rest.

BK>  Why... you're practically qualified for politics!


IT's the oldest trick in the books.  Can't think of his name, but the math prof
who wrote "lies, damned lies and statistics" which is btw an interesting read.


Regards,
           Richard
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+
 * Origin: Radio REscue net operations BBS       (1:116/901)