Text 1668, 1063 rader
Skriven 2005-11-08 23:33:06 av Whitehouse Press (1:3634/12.0)
Ärende: Press Release (051108) for Tue, 2005 Nov 8
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Press Briefing by Scott McClellan
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For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
November 8, 2005

Press Briefing by Scott McClellan
James S. Brady Press Briefing Room

Press Briefing
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  þ Congressional investigation/leak on secret prisons
  þ Ethics briefings
      þ Reference B
      þ Reference C
  þ Karl Rove/CIA leak investigation
  þ Torture/CIA exemption?
      þ Reference B
  þ Presidential pardon for Libby?
  þ Illegal immigration
  þ Australia/arrests of terror suspects
  þ France/riots
  þ Presidential apology to Joe Wilson?
  þ Department of Defense guidelines on detainees
  þ Oil companies/donating fuel profits

12:58 P.M. EST

MR. McCLELLAN: Good afternoon, everyone. It's good to be back from a good
trip to South America. The President was pleased to visit Argentina, and
had a good visit with President Kirchner. He was pleased to participate in
the meetings of the Summit of the Americas, and also pleased to meet with
President Lula in Brazil, and visit Panama, as well. That was the first
time he had been to Panama, and it was a very good visit.

The trip was very good in the sense that it reaffirmed the commitment of
the nations to move forward on strengthening democratic institutions and
advancing opportunity and prosperity in the region for all people. There
was a good discussion about ways to lift people out of poverty, and good
discussion on moving forward on the Doha Round. There was also good
discussion about reaffirming our commitments to important shared values and
principles, such as freedom of religion and freedom of speech, adhering to
the rule of law, fighting corruption.

And so the President was very pleased with the trip, and we are glad to be
back and look forward to going to Asia next week. The President had some
good interviews earlier this morning with some foreign print media from
those countries that we will be traveling to early next week. And with
that, I'll be glad to go to your questions.

Q Does the President know about, and approve of, this probe that's being
announced by the House and Senate of the leak of the story about the CIA
secret prisons --

MR. McCLELLAN: I just saw the announcement on that. That was a decision
made by the Speaker and the Majority Leader.

Q I want to know what the President thinks about it.

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, we just found out about it not long ago.

Q Well, does he think that's a good idea?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I think that you've heard him express his views. The
leaking of classified information is a serious matter and ought to be taken
seriously. But this is a congressional prerogative, and it was a decision
that was made by those leaders, and that's the way I would describe it.

Q I just wondered whether the White House basically endorses this under the
circumstances.

MR. McCLELLAN: It was their decision, Bill, is the way I would describe it.
You might want to ask them questions about their decisions.

Q There were the briefings that began, the ethics briefings that began
today. Can you describe in some fashion what the presentation is that White
House staffers are hearing for an hour, and what you're trying to
accomplish?

MR. McCLELLAN: Sure. First let me step back and just talk about these so
everybody in the room is familiar with what we are doing. The President
takes the issue of the handling of classified information very seriously.
And about a week ago, or just over a week ago, at Camp David, he visited
with his Chief of Staff, Andy Card, and his Counsel, Harriet Miers, about
some steps that we should take here at the White House. And the President
directed that action be taken to provide refresher briefings for all White
House staff -- that includes staff within the White House, as well as staff
within the Executive Office of the President; that would include agencies
that operate within the White House, such as the Office of Management and
Budget and the Counsel on Environmental Quality and a number of others.

The White House staff knows very well what is expected of them. They're
expected to focus on the people's business and they're expected to adhere
to the highest ethical standards. The President has made that clear for
quite some time. And he directed Andy Card and Harriet Miers to do these
refresher briefings for all White House staff.

And they focus on general ethics rules, including rules governing the
handling of classified information. So this week there will be eight
hour-long sessions that will be conducted for all White House staff that
has security clearances of any level, whether that -- well, all staff that
has any sort of security clearance.

And so there will be -- in these briefings, which started this morning,
they're organized in an alphabetical way -- there will be a general
overview of ethics issues, such as the standards of ethical conduct that
are expected. There will be a discussion about classified information and
the proper handling of classified national security information, how that
material is classified, by whom, for how long, who has access to it, how
the material is declassified, the badges that people wear to show their
security clearances and so forth. The briefings discuss the security
precautions that are in place for handling classified information such as
the use of safes, or the use of specific locations to view classified
information like the Situation Room here at the White House. It will talk
about the proper disposal of classified information. It will talk about the
handling of classified information when you're transporting that classified
information. And the briefings will include the rules and laws relating to
classified information and what's expected of people. So that's kind of a
general overview of these briefings.

Q Is there underlying concern that the highest ethical standards have not
been observed by everyone?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, this was -- the President made this decision in light
of recent circumstances, that we should take this action. And that's why he
directed the Counsel's Office to proceed with these refresher briefings.
Every White House staffer has to go through ethics briefings when they come
on to the staff. You also have to go through detailed briefings when you're
provided security clearances -- before you're provided those security
clearances you go through very detailed briefings. And next week there will
be briefings conducted for remaining employees that do not have security
clearances.

So we thought that -- the President thought that this was an appropriate
time to move ahead with these refresher briefings, and that's why he
directed this course of action be taken.

Q This is over two weeks. Where are the briefings held? And how many, like,
typically in a class?

MR. McCLELLAN: They're held over in the New Executive Office Building, or
the Eisenhower Executive Office Building. There's an auditorium over there.

Q Is this all we should expect from the President, the ethics refresher
courses, the extent of his reaction to the indictment?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, as you're aware, if you're asking a question about an
ongoing investigation, we're not going to have further say at this point
while it continues. It is a very serious matter, and we are going to
continue to cooperate. That's what the President directed us to do and
that's what we are doing.

Q I asked you a different question. Is this the full extent of what the
President deems necessary, "in light of circumstances?"

MR. McCLELLAN: The President is always free to take the action that he
feels is appropriate.

Q Does the President think that Karl Rove lived up to the highest ethical
standards --

MR. McCLELLAN: Again, that's a question relating to an ongoing
investigation. The President was asked about it last week; he reiterated
what we have previously said. This is a serious matter, it continues, and
what we are going to do is continue to cooperate with that investigation.
And that's why I made the point, too, that all of us here at the White
House understand what the expectations are. We understand that we're
expected to adhere to the highest standards. We understand that we're
expected to focus on the work of the American people, and that's what we
do.

Q Do you think that while Karl Rove is under investigation that he should
retain his security clearance?

MR. McCLELLAN: I'm just not going to talk about an ongoing investigation.
You're asking that question in the light of an ongoing investigation; it's
something that continues at this point.

Q One last one on this. It just -- it strikes me as odd that, given the
fact that Karl Rove has not been charged with any crime, he's merely under
investigation, so far as we know, that the President's language about him
and his confidence in him has been so distant, that he simply refuses to
comment on his standing within the White House because of a pending matter.

MR. McCLELLAN: No, I don't agree with that. I mean, Karl Rove is continuing
to perform his duties as Deputy Chief of Staff and Senior Advisor. We
appreciate all that he's doing.

Q So the President stands by Rove a hundred percent?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I've made it clear to you that everybody who works
here at the White House has the confidence of the President.

Q That's not exactly a direct answer, though.

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, you're asking a question relating to an ongoing
investigation and --

Q Does he stand by Karl Rove a hundred percent?

MR. McCLELLAN: -- the investigation relating to him is something that is
ongoing, and the President has addressed that.

Q -- forward-leaning as that, to say the President stands behind Karl Rove
a hundred percent?

MR. McCLELLAN: I just made the President's views known.

Q I'd like you to clear up, once and for all, the ambiguity about torture.
Can we get a straight answer? The President says we don't do torture, but
Cheney --

MR. McCLELLAN: That's about as straight as it can be.

Q Yes, but Cheney has gone to the Senate and asked for an exemption on --

MR. McCLELLAN: No, he has not. Are you claiming he's asked for an exemption
on torture? No, that's --

Q He did not ask for that?

MR. McCLELLAN: -- that is inaccurate.

Q Are you denying everything that came from the Hill, in terms of torture?

MR. McCLELLAN: No, you're mischaracterizing things. And I'm not going to
get into discussions we have --

Q Can you give me a straight answer for once?

MR. McCLELLAN: Let me give it to you, just like the President has. We do
not torture. He does not condone torture and he would never --

Q I'm asking about exemptions.

MR. McCLELLAN: Let me respond. And he would never authorize the use of
torture. We have an obligation to do all that we can to protect the
American people. We are engaged --

Q That's not the answer I'm asking for --

MR. McCLELLAN: It is an answer -- because the American people want to know
that we are doing all within our power to prevent terrorist attacks from
happening. There are people in this world who want to spread a hateful
ideology that is based on killing innocent men, women and children. We saw
what they can do on September 11th --

Q He didn't ask for an exemption --

MR. McCLELLAN: -- and we are going to --

Q -- answer that one question. I'm asking, is the administration asking for
an exemption?

MR. McCLELLAN: I am answering your question. The President has made it very
clear that we are going to do --

Q You're not answering -- yes or no?

MR. McCLELLAN: No, you don't want the American people to hear what the
facts are, Helen, and I'm going to tell them the facts.

Q -- the American people every day. I'm asking you, yes or no, did we ask
for an exemption?

MR. McCLELLAN: And let me respond. You've had your opportunity to ask the
question. Now I'm going to respond to it.

Q If you could answer in a straight way.

MR. McCLELLAN: And I'm going to answer it, just like the President -- I
just did, and the President has answered it numerous times.

Q -- yes or no --

MR. McCLELLAN: Our most important responsibility is to protect the American
people. We are engaged in a global war against Islamic radicals who are
intent on spreading a hateful ideology, and intent on killing innocent men,
women and children.

Q Did we ask for an exemption?

MR. McCLELLAN: We are going to do what is necessary to protect the American
people.

Q Is that the answer?

MR. McCLELLAN: We are also going to do so in a way that adheres to our laws
and to our values. We have made that very clear. The President directed
everybody within this government that we do not engage in torture. We will
not torture. He made that very clear.

Q Are you denying we asked for an exemption?

MR. McCLELLAN: Helen, we will continue to work with the Congress on the
issue that you brought up. The way you characterize it, that we're asking
for exemption from torture, is just flat-out false, because there are laws
that are on the books that prohibit the use of torture. And we adhere to
those laws.

Q We did ask for an exemption; is that right? I mean, be simple -- this is
a very simple question.

MR. McCLELLAN: I just answered your question. The President answered it
last week.

Q What are we asking for?

Q Would you characterize what we're asking for?

MR. McCLELLAN: We're asking to do what is necessary to protect the American
people in a way that is consistent with our laws and our treaty
obligations. And that's what we --

Q Why does the CIA need an exemption from the military?

MR. McCLELLAN: David, let's talk about people that you're talking about who
have been brought to justice and captured. You're talking about people like
Khalid Shaykh Muhammad; people like Abu Zubaydah.

Q I'm asking you --

MR. McCLELLAN: No, this is facts about what you're talking about.

Q Why does the CIA need an exemption from rules that would govern the
conduct of our military in interrogation practices?

MR. McCLELLAN: There are already laws and rules that are on the books, and
we follow those laws and rules. What we need to make sure is that we are
able to carry out the war on terrorism as effectively as possible, not only
--

Q What does that mean --

MR. McCLELLAN: What I'm telling you right now -- not only to protect
Americans from an attack, but to prevent an attack from happening in the
first place. And, you bet, when we capture terrorist leaders, we are going
to seek to find out information that will protect -- that prevent attacks
from happening in the first place. But we have an obligation to do so. Our
military knows this; all people within the United States government know
this. We have an obligation to do so in a way that is consistent with our
laws and values.

Now, the people that you are bringing up -- you're talking about in the
context, and I think it's important for the American people to know, are
people like Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, Abu Zubaydah, Ramzi Binalshibh -- these
are -- these are dangerous killers.

Q So they're all killers --

Q Did you ask for an exemption on torture? That's a simple question, yes or
no.

MR. McCLELLAN: No. And we have not. That's what I told you at the
beginning.

Q You want to reserve the ability to use tougher tactics with those
individuals who you mentioned.

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, obviously, you have a different view from the American
people. I think the American people understand the importance of doing
everything within our power and within our laws to protect the American
people.

Q Scott, are you saying that Cheney did not ask --

Q What is it that you want the -- what is it that you want the CIA to be
able to do that the U.S. Armed Forces are not allowed to do?

MR. McCLELLAN: I'm not going to get into talking about national security
matters, Bill. I don't do that, because this involves --

Q This would be the exemption, in other words.

MR. McCLELLAN: This involves information that relates to doing all we can
to protect the American people. And if you have a different view --
obviously, some of you on this room -- in this room have a different view,
some of you on the front row have a different view.

Q We simply are asking a question.

Q What is the Vice President -- what is the Vice President asking for?

MR. McCLELLAN: It's spelled out in our statement of administration policy
in terms of what our views are. That's very public information. In terms of
our discussions with members of Congress --

Q -- no, it's not --

MR. McCLELLAN: In terms of our members -- like I said, there are already
laws on the books that we have to adhere to and abide by, and we do. And we
believe that those laws and those obligations address these issues.

Q So then why is the Vice President continuing to lobby on this issue? If
you're very happy with the laws on the books, what needs change?

MR. McCLELLAN: Again, you asked me -- you want to ask questions of the Vice
President's office, feel free to do that. We've made our position very
clear, and it's spelled out on our website for everybody to see.

Q We don't need a website, we need you from the podium.

MR. McCLELLAN: And what I just told you is what our view is.

Q But Scott, do you see the contradiction --

MR. McCLELLAN: Jessica, go ahead.

Q Will the President pledge not to pardon Lewis Libby?

MR. McCLELLAN: I'm not going to discuss an ongoing legal proceeding, and
I'm not going to --

Q Can you just --

MR. McCLELLAN: No, I'm not going to speculate about any matters relating to
it. This is something that is just beginning. There will be a hearing
process that is going on right now, and we need to let that legal
proceeding continue. I was asked this question last week, and that's -- I'm
just not going to speculate about things at this point.

Q So if he's interested in seeing the legal process continue, that means he
will not pardon him, is that correct?

MR. McCLELLAN: There is a legal proceeding --

Q That would interrupt the legal proceeding.

MR. McCLELLAN: -- that is going on relating to that individual. Under our
system, there is a presumption of innocence. And we're not going to comment
on it while it is continuing. And I'm not going to -- certainly not going
to speculate about it, as well.

Q Should we take that to mean it remains a possibility?

MR. McCLELLAN: It should mean exactly what I said.

Go ahead, Goyal.

Q Scott, before my question, I would like to thank the President and Mr.
Andy Card for -- at the White House -- (inaudible) --. My question is that
we don't know when the immigration law pending in the Congress will be
through, but at this time, trafficking problem is a big one, especially the
--

MR. McCLELLAN: Trafficking in persons?

Q Yes.

MR. McCLELLAN: That is a high priority for this President to stop the
trafficking in persons.

Q -- especially from South Asia, and now India Globe is working a story on
a woman from Bangladesh. They bring them here, and then they won't give
them a green card and citizenship and work. And then they exploit them and
rape them and use them. And then these women have nowhere to go, and they
seek help from -- what they should do because there is no one to help them
out. And then Immigration have them deported -- they said you have no legal
citizen here. What the President is going to do --

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, the President has made preventing the trafficking in
persons a high priority, particularly trafficking that is involving sex
crimes. That is something that he has talked about at the United Nations.
It is an issue -- the trafficking in persons is an issue that he talked
about just the other day when we were in Brazil, and the President was
participating in a roundtable with some young professionals. And one of
those persons was someone who worked for an organization that was committed
to doing what they can to stop the trafficking in persons.

It's not only the sex trafficking, it's also the trafficking in persons
that are seeking to come to our country illegally, simply to provide a
better way of life for their families back home, their children, because
they know that they might be able to provide a better opportunity for their
families back home by coming here to the United States. And you have these
coyotes, as the President has talked about, who illegally smuggle people
into this country. That's something that we're focused on when it comes to
enforcing our borders. That's why one of the President's top priorities on
his agenda is taking steps to strengthen our border enforcement and to move
forward on comprehensive immigration reform, because people have lost their
lives needlessly and we've got to do more to enforce our borders, as well
as to move forward on other initiatives to improve our immigration system.
We need a more practical and realistic immigration system to address these
problems.

Q At that meeting at Camp David, the President, Harriet Miers and Andrew
Card talked about steps that would be taken -- does that mean there's going
to be something in addition to the ethics --

MR. McCLELLAN: No, he was -- thank you for the opportunity to talk further
about that. What the President directed them to do at Camp David was to
move forward on the action that is taking place this week and next week, as
well.

Q But, I mean, the steps being taken -- so that's it, just the classes?

MR. McCLELLAN: If you're asking me to limit the President's ability to make
decisions that he deems are appropriate, I'm not going to do that. But this
is the action that directed to be taken last week at Camp David.

Q Scott, is anyone in the White House exempt from participating in these
and --

MR. McCLELLAN: No, it's a mandatory session.

Q Would the Vice President have to attend?

MR. McCLELLAN: It's mandatory for all White House staff. That's who it's
for.

Q And he's considered staff?

MR. McCLELLAN: No, he's considered the Vice President. (Laughter.)

Q So he does not have to attend?

MR. McCLELLAN: All White House staff is required to participate in these
sessions.

Q Scott, if that is a refresher course, the initial time that they took
this class, was there any kind of statement that people had to sign saying
they understood what they had been trained or taught --

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, when you go through the clearance process to receive
classified clearances, or security clearances, you have to sign information
and you go through detailed briefings.

Q And is there a portion in this training that says there are consequences
if you don't follow the rules, if you don't follow these procedures --

MR. McCLELLAN: As I indicated at the beginning, everybody at the White
House understands what's expected of them.

Q And they acknowledge that in a statement? Is that true?

MR. McCLELLAN: No, I'm not going to get into talking about everything that
has to be signed when you go through a classified briefing on security
clearances. But you do have to sign forms when you attend those briefings.

Q Saying that you understand the rules and the regulations, and that type
of thing, and the training -- that you've taken this training and you
understand the consequences?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, this is relating to classified security clearances,
and that's all I'll say on it, and it's what I just said.

Q Scott, two on Australia and France. First of all, on the Australian
arrests, has the U.S. coordinated with them, and is this as a result of
Australia's cooperation with the United States?

MR. McCLELLAN: That's something that you ought to direct to Australian
authorities. They've talked about it and you can check with our law
enforcement authorities to see if there's any additional information. I'll
be glad to check on that, as well.

Q Are you pleased with Australia's actions? Do you have any comment?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, they're a good partner in the global war on terrorism,
and they have been pursuing individuals who seek to do harm to their
citizens. And they've announced some of the steps that they've taken and
some of the results of those steps. I don't have any additional information
on it at this point, other than what they have said publicly, Connie.

Q On the French riots, do you have any message for the French, and for
Europe, in general, in light of these riots? And should Americans be
encouraged to go to France and other countries which might --

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, Americans should always look to the guidance put out
by our State Department in terms of travel, wherever they are traveling. It
provides information regarding any security precautions or warnings that
they should heed. And beyond that, you ought to talk to France about the
steps they're taking to address that.

Go ahead, April.

Q Scott, the President was asked about an apology to the Wilson family, and
he did not answer it. And if -- I'm wondering if that non-answer goes to
the fact that an apology would be under review right now from the
administration.

MR. McCLELLAN: It goes to the fact that there's an ongoing investigation
and legal proceeding, and we're not going to have any further discussion of
it while it is ongoing.

Q So are you saying an apology would compromise the investigation?

MR. McCLELLAN: I don't know how I could make it more clear, in terms of our
response to questions relating to an ongoing investigation.

Q You said that Chief of Staff and the White House Counsel were involved in
planning the ethics classes. Karl is a pretty hands-on guy; how involved
was he in the planning --

MR. McCLELLAN: It was the Counsel's Office. The Counsel's Office is the one
that is responsible for conducting these ethics briefings. Richard Painter
is our ethics counsel, and he is the one that conducts these briefings.

Q So he wasn't involved at all in setting it up, as Andy Card was?

MR. McCLELLAN: No, this was the President talking with Andy Card and
Harriet Miers at Camp David, not this last weekend, but the weekend before.

Q So then you talk about having them in light of circumstances, is that a
tacit acknowledgment that classified information has, in fact, been leaked?

MR. McCLELLAN: It was the way I described it.

Q Okay, one other quick one on the Vice President's lobbying. You said that
we can direct questions to the Vice President's Office and, presumably, the
Vice President is operating with the full knowledge of the President, in
terms of lobbying to get an exemption for the CIA. Are you saying that the
Vice President's Office is operating independently?

MR. McCLELLAN: What Helen was asking earlier was the exemption for torture,
and that is just a flat-out false characterization. And no one is asking
for that because the President has already made --

Q -- the question was --

MR. McCLELLAN: -- the President has already made it clear that we do not
torture and we do not tolerate torture. In fact, if you look at -- let's go
back and just step back from this and let's look at some of what has
happened that has put a stain on the image of the United States abroad. And
that was what happened at Abu Ghraib. Well, what our military has done is
acted to hold people accountable for their conduct, and to take steps to
prevent something like that from happening again. They went through some 12
major investigations or reviews and looked at these issues. And now they've
been implementing steps to prevent something like that from ever happening
again.

Now, I welcome an opportunity to talk about this -- uninterrupted, I might
add -- to talk about the importance of what we're working to do in the
global war on terrorism. And the American people I think ought to hear what
we are working to do, because the President takes very seriously his
responsibility to do all that he can to protect them. We saw what happened
on --

Q -- (inaudible) --

MR. McCLELLAN: Hang on, I'm coming to your question. We saw what happened
on September 11th, when some 3,000 innocent men, women and children were
killed in New York, in Washington and in the fields of Pennsylvania. The
President made a decision on that day that we were going to go on the
offensive, that we were going to use all available tools to bring to
justice those who seek to do us harm before they could carry out their
attacks.

And he also made a commitment to work to change the status quo in the
Middle East by spreading freedom. For too long we thought we had stability
and peace in the Middle East, and we got neither. It became a breeding
ground for terrorism. And that's why it's so important what we're working
to achieve in the broader Middle East. That's why it's so important that we
succeed in Iraq, because Iraq will be an example to the rest of the Middle
East, just like Afghanistan is, in terms of that.

And in terms of what Congress is considering -- or, at least the Senate, in
terms of this amendment -- the President answered this question just the
other day. He talked about how we would continue to work with members of
Congress to address this issue. But there are already --

Q What is the White House --

MR. McCLELLAN: -- there are already laws on the books, but not only laws,
they're also values that we very much adhere to. But we have an obligation
to the American people --

Q How do values blend with what you said earlier, which is "what is
necessary"? If what is necessary needs to be done, does that -- does "what
is necessary" necessarily fit in with our values?

MR. McCLELLAN: What is necessary within our laws and within our values.

Q So that means not torture --

MR. McCLELLAN: You bet, the President is going to act to do what he can to
prevent an attack from happening on the American people. That's what the
American people expect. But we're going to do so consistent with our laws
and values, and we've made that repeatedly clear.

Q So what is the Vice President lobbying for? And is he doing it on behalf
of the White House, or is he operating independently?

MR. McCLELLAN: Again, I just said we're going to continue to work with
Congress.

Go ahead.

Q Why don't you answer the one question on exemption?

MR. McCLELLAN: I just did, Helen.

Q Does the Vice President's Office have -- I mean, you blanket -- covered
the White House. The Vice President's Office is under the Office of the
White House. Why can't you just -- why can't you answer?

MR. McCLELLAN: I'm not going to get into all the discussions we have with
members of Congress. If they want to add additional information, you're
welcome to contact their office, as well.

Q Well, they don't answer like you do. You are at that podium. We need to
hear from you. You --

MR. McCLELLAN: And I just made it clear --

Q -- are the Press Secretary for all --

MR. McCLELLAN: There's a statement of administration policy that has been
put out. And -- but let's talk about what this issue is relating to. This
issue is relating to the protection of the American people and making sure
that the President of the United States has the tools he needs to be able
to prevent attacks from happening, and to be able to stop those terrorists
who still seek to do us harm from carrying out their attacks in the first
place.

Q -- the Vice President wants torture? Which --

MR. McCLELLAN: Wrong. That is absolutely false.

Q Well, then tell us --

MR. McCLELLAN: The President has made it very clear that we do not torture.

Q What is the Vice President doing?

MR. McCLELLAN: I just told you.

Q You have not. I'm not trying to be --

MR. McCLELLAN: I'm not going to let you -- you are mischaracterizing what
this is about.

Q Scott, no, we want to know --

MR. McCLELLAN: It's clearly in the statement of administration policy.
April, look, you can keep showboating for the cameras, but we've made clear
what our views are.

Q Thank you -- I showboat well, thank you --

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, you are. Let's be honest about it.

Q I'm being honest. I want an honest answer from you.

MR. McCLELLAN: And you got it in the statement of administration policy.

Q -- in the website. That is not -- that is not --

MR. McCLELLAN: You got it in the statement of administration policy. There
are already laws on the books that cover these issues.

Q -- this issue --

MR. McCLELLAN: Yes, and that's what it is.

Q Well, give it to us then.

MR. McCLELLAN: Go look on our website. I'll be glad to provide it to you.

Q -- which website?

MR. McCLELLAN: And I just told you what it is. Are you not listening? I
just told you what it is.

Q Scott, the Department of Defense is revising --

MR. McCLELLAN: I think you need to calm down a little bit and let me
respond.

Go ahead.

Q Scott, the Department of Defense is revising its policy guidelines for
the treatment of detainees for the war on terror --

MR. McCLELLAN: Yes.

Q Vice President Cheney's office, his senior staff, had advised the uniform
military lawyers working on this document that the White House is opposed
to including any reference to Geneva Convention terms for humane treatment
of detainees. Vice President Cheney's spokeswoman told us last week that
that -- that the Vice President is pursuing the President's policy in
holding that --

MR. McCLELLAN: I don't think -- who told you the first part of this? Let's
talk about where that came from, first of all.

Q Well, the -- what are you talking about?

MR. McCLELLAN: The Vice President's office I don't think told you that
first part of that, and you made it sound like the first part of that was
from the Vice President's office. I don't think they told you that.

Q No, I'm not trying to make it sound like they did. There's --

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, you're declaring that as fact.

Q -- published reports in The New York Times and The Washington Post -- we
are reporting, as well. So the question is, what is the President's view
with respect to this Department of Defense policy guideline on the
treatment of --

MR. McCLELLAN: We have great confidence in Secretary Rumsfeld and the
Department of Defense to move forward on steps to prevent something like
what happened at Abu Ghraib from happening again. And that's what this
comes out of, because, as I pointed out earlier, the Department of Defense
undertook some 12 major investigations and reviews -- and/or reviews. They
also pursued a number of cases against individuals who were responsible for
these abuses, and they pursued people and held them to account. That's what
the United States does. And that's the way we show the world what we are
all about. We are about values and laws, and about adhering to those values
and laws. And that's what we will continue to do. So they have taken steps,
and are continuing to take steps, to put in place some policy directives
that will build upon what they already had in place.

Q Is the President opposed to any reference to Geneva Convention or
adherence to the Geneva Convention, directly, in this Department of Defense
policy guideline?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, in terms of the guidelines, those are guidelines that
the Department of Defense will issue. And so I'd encourage you to talk
further with them about that. Anytime there's something like this, there's
an interagency process that goes on, and a number of people are involved in
providing input into that process. That's part of the interagency process;
that's a healthy part of being able to come to these decisions. And so
that's what you're talking about.

Q The President has no view?

MR. McCLELLAN: We support the action that the Department of Defense has
taken, and have great confidence in the steps that they are taking to
address these matters. In terms of views that we express, we do that
through the interagency process.

Q Scott, two-part. Reuters, AP, and The Los Angeles Times all reported
yesterday that the IRS has threatened to revoke the tax-exempt status of
All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena, California, because its retired
rector, George Regas, implied to parishioners before the 2004 election that
Jesus would not have voted for George W. Bush. And my question: Is it
possible that the President supports any such attempt to muzzle the pulpit?

MR. McCLELLAN: I don't think the President gets involved in decisions that
are made by churches.

Q And my second. Since President Bush supports the creation of a separate
Palestinian state to halt Muslim violence in Israel, will he now back the
creation of an autonomous "Paris-stinian" state to quell violence in
France?

MR. McCLELLAN: The President has made very clear what his view is when it
comes to the Middle East peace process. And he was the first President to
articulate a policy of two states living side-by-side in peace and
security. We're making great progress there.

In terms of what is going on in France, you need to talk to the French
government on how they're working to address those matters. That's a matter
-- internal matter to France.

Q Senator Grassley has come up with the idea that even though the
administration is opposed to windfall profit tax, that major oil
corporations voluntarily hand over 10 percent of their vast oil profits to
help pay for -- to help direct this money toward low-income housing, or
home fuel heating expenses. Does the White House have any objection to
this, if it's done voluntarily, for helping those --

MR. McCLELLAN: -- there are some congressional leaders who have talked
about the importance of investing in our energy infrastructure. That is a
goal that the President shares. We all have a responsibility to do our
part. That means the federal government, it means businesses, and it means
consumers. We need to do more to invest in our energy infrastructure and
address the root causes of high energy prices.

Now, energy prices have come down some in recent weeks, but there is action
that we need to continue to take. That's why we acted with Congress to pass
a comprehensive national energy strategy. That's why we're working with
Congress to look at ways we might be able to expand refining capacity. And
the private sector has a role to play in all this, too. And all of us need
to do our part. That's the message the President would say.

Q Would that include the private sector having some responsibility in
helping to alleviate the cost of home heating?

MR. McCLELLAN: What you're talking about -- in terms of the goal that
members of Congress are talking about, which is that we need to do more to
invest in our energy infrastructure, that is a goal we share. And we're
going to continue to work with them, and we're going to continue to urge
all people, in the private sector and in government, to do their part to
help address this issue. And Secretary Bodman spoke some about this last
week.

Go ahead. I'm going to keep going. Go ahead.

Q With respect to the ethics classes that are being conducted, do they
address the grounds for dismissal? And the reason I ask that is because, as
you know, the President changed the ground rules on the grounds of
dismissal by saying initially that those involved will be dismissed, and
then later saying, only those that are convicted will be dismissed. Does
that mean that --

MR. McCLELLAN: Everybody at the White House serves at the pleasure of the
President. And I've made that very clear to you. So I would not agree with
your characterization.

Go ahead.

Q Do you ever say to yourself, I've had enough of this, Austin is really
nice this time of year?

MR. McCLELLAN: I'm glad to help the President implement his optimistic
agenda for the American people. And I enjoy working with the people in this
room most of the time. And I look forward to continuing to --

Q How about today?

MR. McCLELLAN: -- look forward to continuing to do it. Sure, I enjoy it
because -- an important topic was raised at the beginning of this briefing,
and I'm glad to talk about it. Some were intent on trying to jump in and
not let me respond fully. And I understand that. They're just trying to do
their job. But there are important -- there are important points that need
to be made to the American people. There is a reminder that we will
continue to make to the American people.

We remain a country that is engaged in a global war on terrorism. And it's
important that we do everything within our power to go after those who seek
to do us harm and to prevent attacks from happening in the first place. And
this President will do that. But he will do so in a way that is consistent
with our laws and our values. And that's an important point to remember.

But when we're talking about this issue, let's have an open discussion
about it, and let's talk about the type of people that we're talking about
who have been brought to justice, people like Khalid Shaykh Muhammad,
people like Binalshibh. These are people that were operational planners
involved in carrying out attacks that led to the death of some 3,000
Americans. And the President is determined to prevent something like that
from ever happening again. And he's going to do his part to make sure he
fulfills the obligation he has to the American people, which is to do
everything he can to protect them. So I welcome the discussion.

Go ahead.

Q Scott, who would be the highest ranking staffer whose attendance is
required at these briefings?

MR. McCLELLAN: Assistants to the President.

Q Would the Chief of Staff --

MR. McCLELLAN: Yes.

Q -- go?

MR. McCLELLAN: He's an assistant to the President.

Q Yes.

MR. McCLELLAN: He participated in the meeting this morning, absolutely. In
fact, I think a number of assistants to the President participated in the
first meeting, even though it was for A through B. And I think C through D
was later, and E and F later, and then more over the next couple of days.

Q So they cut one?

MR. McCLELLAN: But all the assistants to the President were ones --

Q Would you make Richard Painter available to us?

MR. McCLELLAN: I'm sorry?

Q Would you make Richard Painter available to us?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, he's conducting these briefings for staff. This is
relating to classified information, so you can understand the nature of the
briefings, and I don't think you have security clearance.

Q But he could tell us what the guidelines are for what people are --

Q He's not talking about classified information in the briefing.

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, we'll be glad to provide you public information that's
on general information guidelines. But information related to classified
security briefings, some of that information, by nature, is involved just
for people with security clearances. And I'm not aware that you have one at
this point.

Q He's not talking about classified information in the briefing.

Q He's talking about the guidelines.

Q He's talking about guidelines.

MR. McCLELLAN: No, it involves talking about classified matters -- Bill,
you're wrong.

Go ahead.

Q You may have noticed that The Washington Post, The Financial Times --

MR. McCLELLAN: I'm sorry, could you speak up just a little bit?

Q You may have noticed that The Washington Post, The Financial Times have
had reports about a human rights lawyer in Beijing whose office was forced
to close down because he wrote an open letter to the Chinese leader asking
them to stop the persecution of Falun Gong spiritual movement in China.
Since President Bush is going to Asia next week, do you think this is some
issue he will address?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, the President had some interviews earlier today. I
would encourage you to look at those interviews because one of the topics
he talked about was human rights. That is something we talk about publicly
and privately as a high priority for this President. We have always made
the promotion of human rights and human dignity at the top -- always put it
at the top of our agenda. And that's what we will continue to do.

And, yes, the President will continue to talk openly and candidly with
leaders he meets with, including when he goes to China, about the
importance of freedom of religion for instance.

Tomorrow the President and Mrs. Bush look forward to welcoming His Holiness
the Dalai Lama to the White House. He's met with him on a number of
occasions before, and they will talk about issues relating to Tibet. And
you bet when the President goes to Asia next week, he will continue to talk
about the importance of promoting human rights and human dignity for all.
We have an obligation -- all of us in the world have an obligation to speak
out about human rights. And where those human rights are being undermined,
we have a right to speak out about them in places that the -- in countries
that the President has talked about before.

One question he got earlier today was relating to North Korea and the
treatment of people in North Korea. And he talked about that at length.

Go ahead.

Q Thank you, Scott. There are negotiations underway today to further
liberalize the Open Skies agreement between Canada and the United States,
essentially the fifth freedom which would allow, in this case, Canadian
airlines to compete for the lucrative domestic international market.
Considering the state of the American airlines, five now seeking bankruptcy
protection, does the President believe that this is the right time to open
up this market to --

MR. McCLELLAN: That's something we continue to discuss with Canada. I don't
have the latest update on any of those discussions. We've been in South
America for the last few days focused on some other matters. But I'm sure
that if you direct those questions to the appropriate agency, they can
provide you an update, in terms of that.

Q Understood. But in general terms, considering the state of the American
airline industry right now, does the President believe that it's a good
time to start changing --

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, the American airline industry is going through a
transition. They've been going through that transition for some time
because of the changing economy that we live in, and the changing nature of
their business.

All right, thank you.

END 1:37 P.M. EST
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