Text 25639, 121 rader
Skriven 2006-02-18 12:59:01 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
  Kommentar till text 25388 av Frank Vest (1:124/6308.1)
Ärende: Elist
=============
Hello Frank,

 Mv>> My point being, that that made the new list started by a Z1
 Mv>> sysop, a Z1 list.

 > Problem is that the elist will accept listings from any Zone
 > or FTN.

I don't see that as a problem.

 > That many choose not to use it does not make it a Z1 only list.

But the fact that it was created after the Z1-Z2 merged list failed did. We
were back at the situation with a list FOR Z1 and a list FOR Z2.

 > Stating that the elist is a Z1 list is akin to claiming that a
 > country is isolationist but opens it arms to anyone who wants to
 > visit or become a citizen.

Sorry, I lost you there.

 > In the respect that the elist originates in Z1, you may be
 > right. The elist, however, does not state that it is a Z1 list.

And me claiming I am the emperor of the universe does not make it so.

 > Conversely, since the Fidonews now originates in Z2, and carries
 > a Z2 Node number, I suppose it is the Z2 Fidonews?

Apples and oranges. FidoNew is specifically mentioned in policy. E-lists are
not. There is mention of e-lists in EP1, but *those* e-liest do not go above
the zone level.

 >> Fidonet could benefit from an elist "IF" it is operated properly.

 Mv>> And there I think lies the problem. We have seen far too much abuse
 Mv>> with e-lists in the past and so we prefer not to attempt to
 Mv>> regulate what does not really need regulation.

 > Yes, the problem is the proper operation and the fear of the
 > Fidonet world that there will be abuse.

The fear is fully justified. It *has* been abused on numerous occasions.

 >> A central repository of echos that are available in Fidonet could
 >> benefit Fidonet.

 Mv>> The benefits do not outweigh the problems resulting from abuse.

 > There's that fear again.

It is more than fear. It is the certain knowledge that it HAS been abused and
the near certainty that it will be abused again.

 > Perhaps all echos should go to private distribution due to fear?

From my point of view all echos ARE privately distributed now. In the past we
had Cost Sharing Organisations who distributed echomail, but now that there is
no cost of any significance left, we distribute echo privately. All the
echomail links that I have are on a private sysop to sysop basis.

 >> The list would have information on who the Moderator is,

 Mv>> Who the moderator of an echo is, is ony of interest to those who are
 Mv>> going to violate the rules of an echo. They will find out soon enough.

 > Not always. If I were to see an area in a listing that interests me, I
 > still might not want to carry that echo because I know that the
 > Moderator does not like me and would not be fair to me.

Funny. I keep saying that we no longer feel the need to maintain an echolist
and you keep coming up with hypothetical problems that it is supposed to solve.
problems that I have never run into and probably never will.


 > <..>

 Mv>> If there were a z2-elist, you would find very little of interest to
 Mv>> you.

 Mv>> You guys keep forgetting that Z2 echomail is mostly restricted to the
 Mv>> area covered by the language of the echo. There is no "Z2 echomail" to
 Mv>> speak of. There is German echomail, there is some Spanish echomail,
 Mv>> there is Russian and Ukranian echomail (a lot) but there is no
 Mv>> echomail to speak of that covers all or most of Z2.

 > You guys keep forgetting that America is made up of all kinds
 > of people from all kinds of countries and all kinds of languages.
 > We even have <gasp!> Islamists. ;)

So why is it that we Euroepens can find our way around without an echolist and
you can't?

 Mv>> That may be another reason why we do not need a Z2 echolist.

 > Sad that you all don't talk to each other.

Now tyou are twisting my words. We DO talk to each other, but there is no
denying that there is a language problem.

 > Perhaps Z2 should be broken down into separate Zones?...

What good would that do? Create more *C jobs?

 > No... that would take away the brag of being the largest Zone
 > and you all couldn't handle that, now could you?

C'mon Frank, zone bashing is not your style.

 >> But it could be of benefit, just the same.

 Mv>> The benefits are marginal, they do not outweigh the unavoidable abuse.

 > Probably true. :(

I am afraid so...

Cheers, Michiel

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