Text 2994, 132 rader
Skriven 2004-12-07 20:12:42 av mark lewis (1:3634/12)
   Kommentar till text 2888 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Science 1/2
===================
 >>  MvdV> I see your point, but it may be a moot point. Widespread use
 >>  MvdV> of the InterNet for the transport of FidoNet mail has brought
 >>  MvdV> the cost down to almost zero, but the backside of that medal
 >>  MvdV> is that it is very difficult if not impossible to get a feed
 >>  MvdV> cut for a determined and experienced user.

 >> FWIW: it has /always/ been that way... users can easily
 >> hopscotch around from bbs to bbs to get around feedcuts and
 >> bans and such... they've always been able to do this...
 >> seems to me that nothing has changed... maybe other than
 >> perception as you and others seem to percieve that it is
 >> easier to do now but that is patently wrong...

 MvdV> The operative word here is COST. yes, a user could alway hop
 MvdV> around but unless he was very rich, in practise he was limited
 MvdV> in range.

bovine feces...

 MvdV> Making transatlantic calls to go around a feed cut would
 MvdV> quickly make the average user run out of funds. Now this
 MvdV> is different.

who said anything about transatlantic calls? and what's wrong with transpacific
calls? ;)

 >>  MvdV> I am starting to have my doubts. I keep hearing that the
 >>  MvdV> backbone systems will not carry echo that are not in the list
 >>  MvdV> and that they will use the list as the ultimate authority as
 >>  MvdV> to who is moderator,

 >> that is correct and has been ever since way back when the
 >> "tip top" transoceanic link(s) were set up 15+ years ago to
 >> link Z2 with Z1...

 MvdV> Only on your side of the pond. The TipTop link was setup
 MvdV> bewteen my former host and first ZC2, Henk Wevers on this side
 MvdV> and randy Bush on your side.

yup... so you know the timeframe of which i'm speaking...

 MvdV> The same Henk Wavers that decalared EP1 in force in Z2.

interesting, that word "declared"... sounds draconian... something that you and
other Z2ers have been saying Z1ers are... seems to me that someone on /your/
side of the pond forced something on the rest of you and you have meekly
followed along and submitted to it... is there no backbone over there? ;)

 >>  MvdV> but no one will tell me who these backbone systems are.

 >> OMG, is your memory that short? surely you know what/who
 >> the Z1B and the NAB are? and the WWB?

 MvdV> I know what they are, but I have never seen a membership list
 MvdV> for the Z1B and the NAB.

evidently you have never gone seeking one, either... yet you seem to be trying
to put the blame for that on others...

 >> surely you know how to locate a feed for their public echos?

 MvdV> I know how to locate a feed for the echos that interest me.
 MvdV> Just drop a netmail to the sysop sand request an aera manager
 MvdV> password. What more do i need to know/

what sysop? if you don't know who carries the echo and/or what the echotag is,
how can you even begin to think that you can locate a feed for it? oh, that's
right... you'll do all that research then rather than beforehand when
discussions that are pertient to that information are taking place... kinda
like your recent elist stuff whereby you (finally?) decided to try to utilize
that service but with your rules instead of those that others could have (and
likely did) let you know of... and then you holler foul when things don't go
like you thought they would when you played by a combination of your rules and
the elist rules... shame shame shame ;)

 >> should i even mention the weekly fileecho hatches of the backbone
 >> and backstat files?

 MvdV> I am not connected to theos file echos. Why should I? I am not
 MvdV> in Z1, so they are of no interest to me.

you don't have to be in Z1 to get them... they are not specific to any zone...
your thinking of things like this being zonal in nature are causing you
problems... whats wrong with thinging in a netcentric way instead of a
zonecentric way?? seems to me that that would alleviate a lot of the troubles
that you and others in other zones seem to experience...

 >> the Z1B doesn't hatch such any more but their latest is available
 >> from many systems... the NAB and the WWB both still regularly
 >> hatch and post these files in the fileecho and in their public echos...

 MvdV> I am not connected to these echo. Why should I? i am not in
 MvdV> Z1, so there are of no interest to me.

why should you? to be more informed about that which you speak of... again,
they are not zonal in nature... they are netwide... especially since many
non-Z1 systems feed from Z1 systems... you are a perfect example since (one of)
your feed(s) comes from Z1 (rossC) ;)

 >>  MvdV> Where is the list of systems that actually operate
 >>  MvdV> in such a rigid way?

 >> you might try the following files first...

 MvdV> Whay don't you just tell me. There can't be all that many...

why should i do your homework for you? you are the one asking and seemingly
expecting to be handfed the information... i'm attempting to help you learn how
to do the research on your own... you're a big boy and some years older than
i... how is it that i'm now the (supposed?) teacher when you've been (trying?)
to fly that flag ever since we first ran into each other?? ;)

 >>>> Here, they claim that EP1 is not recognized and is not a
 >>>> legitimate 'fidonet thang' but at the same
 >>>> time neither is the echolist that they cling so dearly

 >>  MvdV> Exactly.

 >> apples and oranges... it is the rules of some of the
 >> /backbone systems/ that the echolist be used...

 MvdV> I am not dependant on the backbone - whoever they are - to get
 MvdV> echomail, I can get it anywhere I want. I am not bound by
 MvdV> those rules.

you /are/ bound by those rules for the echos you get from those systems...
again, there is not one backbone... rossC is a member of one of them and you
are bound by the rules of that one for those areas that you carry from there...

)\/(ark

 * Origin: (1:3634/12)