Text 36474, 160 rader
Skriven 2006-08-10 21:18:45 av Carol Shenkenberger (6:757/1)
  Kommentar till text 36425 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
Ärende: Re: CELEBRATION!
========================
*** Quoting Roy Witt from a message to Carol Shenkenberger ***


RW> Frank is merely expressing his version of free speech. Telling it like
RW> is maybe irksome to a lot of people, but he has a right to his opinion

No problem.  I have a right to mine as well.  I've not done more than state my
feelings.  He irks me exessively at times.

Given a choice between you and him in Fidonet, I think you are the more valued
member.  I guess I am being rude there to put such so bluntly, but that's how
I see it.

RW> who think of themselves as being PC dealing with those who're only tel
RW> it like it is, from their perspective.

Ok, I will try to adapt there and look from that angle.  Odd that you would be
the one to ask it of me, but you may be seeing clearly things that I am not. 
I will keep it in mind.  I dont promise though to not go off on him if he just
sets me off beyond my ability to keep ... umm... 'sanely polite'.

 CS> Probably true.  I've seen movies of Truman where saving even the
 CS> Japanese were in mind as a portion of the decision.  I do not know if
 CS> that is true, but I'd like to think so.  To not 'dance' but to
 CS> understand the need of the time.

RW> You have to remember that Truman had a lot on his plate. He was thinki
RW> of the future as well as the present. Probably with a view to the past
RW> well, thinking in 'what if' terms and how we could have made things
RW> different. And then there was the relevation to Churchill about the bo
RW> and the decision to keep Stalin in the dark. Nobody trusted Stalin, as
RW> you're probably well aware.

I have little of what I would call 'history' of WWII at all.  Most of what
seems to be with me is visiting places where it happened.  USA schools by
1970s were largely science and math and history was 'world science' or 'early
american' or an alternative choice of 'virginia state history'.  I took the
track on early history, roman up through middle ages.

Now in my 40's I wish I had taken 'modern history' (1920 and later) but I did
not. Instead, I took genetics and plant morpholgy. I guess i did well and I
enjoyed the classes.

 CS> I'm not always forgiving but if i see his reply, I will at least read
 CS> it.

RW> Ok.


I have.  I didnt flame him.  At least, wasnt a 'flame' by general defination.

 RW>> On the first mission, Hiroshima was the primary target, Kokura was
 RW>> the secondary choice and Nagasaki the third.

 CS> Humm. I'm going to have to do a little search.  I've been told here,
 CS> the shipyard was a main target.  Far more 'military' and Kokura?

RW> Kokura had one of the largest munitions plants in Japan. Nagasaki made
RW> the list because Gen'l Groves wanted Kyoto, a major industrial city, o
RW> the list, but he was overruled by Sec Stimson who replaced Kyoto with
RW> Nagasaki because Kyoto was of religious and historical significance to
RW> Japan, being the former capitol.

Ok, so call call be confused. I dont mind being wrong (ok. I hate it but can
accept it) but cant reconcile it all.

They skipped the shipyard making all the ships?  They skipped thew same place
as all the imported stuff for Kyushu arrived mostly at?

Wow. Call USA folks dumb if so?  None of the other parts of Kyushu are even
*close* to Sasebo as a military target.  Not now, and i think, not then.  It's
only 'differnce' is the lay of the land means a small local city and not so
much population.

Grin, might need to lead this planaria to the light as I seem to have missed
the beam.

 CS> Yes.  I never claimd to be a brain child.  Even I could see that.  On
 CS> 9/11 the local response was immediate and very sincere.  I was stuck
 CS> on the ship and Don was out at our 'cho' (apartment/neighborhood).
 CS> As the food ran down, he took our spare change in yen (base was
 CS> closed, no access to a bank and they do not use checks here) and they
 CS> just filled his cart taking 10yen for a 500yen fish and so on and
 CS> refusing more.  Just 'pretending it was excess' and stuffing
 CS> Charlotte (in tow, she was 7 then) at every place with anything they
 CS> had handy.

RW> They sound like very nice people. The only experience I have with Japa
RW> is very little; I used to get my hair cut in a shop up the street from
RW> mine and all of the gals were Japanese. Nice girls and they treated th
RW> customers like their own family. Nancy had a Japanese friend that she
RW> talked about and with constantly while we lived in SD. And the next do
RW> lady in Mira Mesa, one of the nicest I've met.

All people are nice, or so is my experience. Very japanese to 'treat as family'
in ways you you would see. Try ghe real thing.  It's even better but very
'comfy' almost like being wrapped in a warm blanket and set by the fire while
someone makes sure the sheets on your bed are crispy-clean-air-smelling.

RW> No phones I take it or you were out to sea.

Yes, and lines shut down. It sucked.  I controled those lines (Radio).


RW> Perhaps you were looking for humane. I've met a lot of people from tha
RW> era who hold a grudge against the Japanese for their 'sneak' attack on
RW> Pearl, and a lot of other atrocities they did to Americans (Bataan,
RW> Midway, etc). I worked with a survivor of Pearl Harbor who was on boar
RW> one of the battleships that survived the bombing, but was part of the
RW> rescue team who tried to extract the sailors trapped in the capsized
RW> Oklahoma. His ship was the next one shoreside to it. He held a grudge
RW> as long as he lived and let everyone know it. BTW, he was also on boar
RW> the Missouri when the Japanese surrendered. He showed me a picture onc
RW> and pointed himself out in the crowd of white uniforms on the upper de

Pehaps.  I will see what you say and keep it in mind.  But the hard part id
Frank had none of those things. He was a 'REMF' thougfh apparently of no fault
in any way for that and I do not denigrate him for it.

 CS>> the few visits did talk of that time a little bit.  His comment was
 CS>> 'the worst I did was shoot a person who had a gun aimed at me, never
 CS>> dropped any bombs I have to have nightmares about now'. I know, he
 CS>> meant that set. I just know...


 RW>> My father made it in time to spend 13 months in the aftermath of the
 RW>> w The Germans surrendered while he was on board a troop ship in the
 RW>> Atlantic. I never figured him for a passionate man, but he told
 RW>> storie the suffereing of the people and the ways he helped them, in
 RW>> spite of orders. He was a guard at a German supply dump, where there
 RW>> was all ki of food and clothing that was denied the public. He left
 RW>> the gates unlocked and turned his back as those in need entered and
 RW>> helped themselves.

Good man there.

 CS> Good man.  My father was there.  He told me he fought in the battle
 CS> of the buldge (damn, another word I cant spell!).  Came in around

RW> Bulge

Grin, thanks.

 CS> 1943 I think he said?  He's gone now, so I cant ask him.  Lord rest
 CS> him, but he died in 2002 and his mind was 'dimmer dark' from 1998 so
 CS> suffered little.  A good man though from all I ever knew of him.

 CS> Smile, perhaps thats a pretty good way to go.  To have a child of
 CS> yours who parted due to things beyond your control at age 2, still
 CS> recall you as a good man.
 CS>                                        xxcarol

RW> Yeup...at least he'll live on as long as you remember him.

He will. He;s got 3 grandkids and a great grand-kid from my sister's side on
the way.
                                       xxcarol

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