Text 41594, 127 rader
Skriven 2006-10-19 18:57:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
  Kommentar till text 41590 av Jeff Smith (1:14/0)
Ärende: DUD-file
================
Hello Jeff!

On Thursday October 19 2006 09:31, you wrote to me:

 JS>>> depends on what country you are in. Would you be willing to
 JS>>> abide by a US law regarding the operation of your Dutch BBS?

 JS>>>      Didn't think so.

 MV>> Of course not. Nor for my website.

 JS>      And I wouldn't expect you to. But at the same time you can not
 JS> expect those not bound by Dutch law to stop displaying the Fidonews
 JS> on their BBS's/websites.

Right. But what I *can* expect is people not to apply double standards. If they
igore my wish to not place my articles on my website because they do not have
to, then I would expect them to not complain when someone else in another
country does something against the wishes a American people when the law iof
their country says they do not have to.

 JS> I can't help but hope that you could have chosen a better and more
 JS> positive way to make the point that you felt had to be made.

I tried for two years and go nowhere.

 JS>      His website and his responsibility as Fidonews editor should be
 JS> dealt with seperately.

We can not redo history. The fact is that it *was* made an issue and that it
was *not* treated separately. No way to get that shit back into the horse.

 JS>>>      You could but we both know that it wouldn't be the truth. I
 JS>>> have tried numerous times to talk, discuss, understand, reason
 JS>>> with you.

 MV>> No, what you have done is try to impose your ways on me under
 MV>> the *guise* of reason.

 JS>      You are free to call it whatever you wish. I am content to know
 JS> what my intention was. An intention that I have explained to you
 JS> clearly. You have chosen to deny the possibility and insist that I
 JS> can't be reasonable.

I look at the bottom line and that is that you want Björn replaced.  Just as
what Shannon, Roy and Dan have been wanting for two years now. That puts you in
their corner.

 JS>>>  No yelling, no name calling,

 MV>> You said I acted as a child...

 JS>      And I stand by that observation. It wasn't meant as an insult.

But it was an insult nonetheless.

You can deny it but this is an obvoius cutural difference. You americans *are*
different from us Europeans and this is one of them.

 JS>  It was meant as a comment on how you look to be acting.

You see, with you it seems to be all right to say someone is an asshole when it
is your opinion that he *is* an asshole. Yes, i know you did not say I am an
asshole, you said I acred like a child. Same principle.

Over here freedom of speech intrudes on civil behaviour when you say things
like that.

 JS> It reminds me of a young in stomping his feet and yelling "No! I don't
 JS> want to and you can't make me!!".

What about a 20 year old girl who says 'no' to a man who wants her to do
something she does not want?

After the man has asked three times and she has the 'no' acopanied with a slap
in the face, would you also say she acts as a child?

 MV>> I have no objection to be understood. What I object to is being
 MV>> pushed. *Demanding* that I make myself understood is pushing.

 JS>      If you have no objection to being understood then why do you
 JS> try so hard to avoid it?

I am not trying to avoid, it. Whar i am trying to avoid is wasting my time in
useless expanations. I am used to not being understood, I am not all that good
at explaining things. Luckily I realised this when I had to make the decison to
become I teacher...

I have lerned to live with the fact that ever so often I am not understood. I
have also learned not to wate my time in trying to explain what will probably
not be understood no matter how often I explain.

 JS>  You refused to answer the first question I asked you. How was I
 JS> pushing?

By asking again after my first refusal.

 JS>>>     And it will as long as those different countries have
 JS>>> different interpretations of the law.

 MV>> Right. So why will people not accept that and stop harrasing the
 MV>> Fidonews editor because what is on his website conflicts with
 MV>> *their perception* of what is right.

 JS>      We agreed? Well I'll be damned. <g> There is hope.

Ok, now tell it to Roy, Dan and Shannon.

 JS>      I don't know as I have never visited his website nor seen any of
 JS> the contents in question.

Maybe you you go see for your self what it is that was worth getting lawyers
involved and having (at least) two sysops having their accounts with their ISP
revoked.

 JS>  Some are I think speaking up because of his actions in apparently
 JS> condoning your use of the copyright in the Fidonews.

You do not know the history. You are dead wrong. All of thsoe that have spoken
up here have already said the same things about Björn and his website two years
ago, longe before I put a copyright notice on an article.


Cheers, Michiel

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