Text 720, 309 rader
Skriven 2007-02-11 19:20:52 av Ed Hulett (1:123/789.0)
    Kommentar till text 719 av ROSS SAUER (1:123/140)
Ärende: Christian fascists?
===========================
ROSS SAUER -> ED HULETT wrote:
 RS>>>>> One of the articles is here:

 RS>>>>> http://www.alternet.org/story/47679/

 RS>>>>> To be quite honest, I think this guy is presenting a "worst case
 RS>>>>> scenario.

 EH>>>> The guy has no earthly clue. He is trivializing fascism by trying
 RS> to
 EH>>>> equate Christian Conservativism to it.

 EH>>>> There is no comparisan between the two.

 RS>>> Depends on which Christian conservatives one looks at.

 EH>>>> Now, if he was trying to make the case that *some* Christian
 EH>>>> Conservatives want a theocracy, he might have a point. But, when
 RS> he
 EH>>>> makes the leap from Christain Conservatism to fascism, he is tring
 RS> to
 EH>>>> promote his agenda. And his aganda is to marginalize Christain
 EH>>>> Conservatives.

 RS>>> I'd suggest looking up "Christian reconstructionism" or
 RS> "Dominionism."

 RS>>> The late RJ Rushdoony was pretty much the founder of this movement.
 RS>>> And some current politicians *DO* subscribe to this movement.

 ->> You haven't a clue what fascism is, do you?

 RS> And you haven't a clue as to what theocracy is.

That is where you are mistaken.

 RS> Just look at Saudi Arabia and Iran.
 RS> BOTH theocracies, and both fascist-type governments.

What makes you think a Christian theocracy would be the same as an Islamic
theocracy?

 RS> But let's take a look at back here in the US.

Okay, let's look.

 RS> Very powerful figures in the U.S. ruling class are proponents of this

The US "ruling class?" Are you serious?

 RS> program. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, one of Bush�s favorites
and
 RS> possible replacement for Chief Justice Rehnquist, has written that
 RS> "government...derives its moral authority from God. It is the �minister
of
 RS> God� with powers to �revenge,� to �execute wrath,� including
even wrath by
 RS> the sword."

Good grief. Scalia didn't replace Rehnquist and the USSC does not legislate.
Your copy and paste is from an old screed.

 RS> In a speech at Christian fundamentalist Bob Jones University, former
 RS> Attorney General John Ashcroft declared, "Unique among the nations,
America
 RS> recognized the source of our character as being godly and eternal, not
 RS> being civic and temporal....we have no King but Jesus." He called the
 RS> separation of church and state "a wall of religious oppression."

The so-called "wall of seperation of church and state" is a limit on government
alone. The actual words show this to be true, "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise
thereof..."

The way you idiots want it is to repress any and all outward expressions of
religios faith primarily from Christians.

You point at Saudi Arabia and ask if we want a theocracy like their's while
ignoring the differences between Christianity and Islam.

 RS> A leading organizer of this movement writes that "Christians have an
 RS> obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the
 RS> land for Jesus Christ � to have dominion in civil structures, just as in
 RS> every other aspect of life and godliness.... World conquest. That�s what
 RS> Christ has commissioned us to accomplish." (George Grant, The Changing of
 RS> the Guard, Biblical Principles for Political Action , pp. 50- 51

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

Who is George Grant?

 RS> Falwell Wants Dominionist In White House

Falwell! Boo!

 RS> Reuters yesterday had a very interesting look at Christian dominionist
 RS> Jerry Falwell and his ongoing campaign to create a theocratic state in
 RS> America.

Good grief, you are obsessed with Falwell and Robertson. They don't have the
political power you try to give them.

 RS> DALLAS (Reuters) - His influence may be diminished but his zeal is
 RS> undaunted. Evangelist Jerry Falwell is on a mission to keep a
 RS> like-minded Republican in the White House and get at least one more
 RS> conservative judge on the Supreme Court.

So, to you idiots, a Republican is the same as a theocrat?

 RS> Despite his years in the trenches of America's culture wars, Falwell --
who
 RS> founded the Moral Majority political movement in 1979 and helped propel
the
 RS> rise of the religious right -- said a major victory in his broader crusade
 RS> to restore the country's moral righteousness has so far eluded him.

___________________________________^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 RS> With abortion still legal, prayer banned in public schools and pornography
 RS> rife, he sees a long struggle ahead. For now, he is focusing on voter
 RS> registration drives and rallying the faithful with his eyes on the twin
 RS> prizes of the 2008 presidential election and control of the Supreme Court.

And this scares you how?

 RS> Some of his statements -- he famously blamed gays and lesbians for
 RS> provoking the September 11 attacks -- have eroded some of his conservative
 RS> support base. But he remains a rallying figure on the far U.S. right.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

The "far U.S. right." Boo!

 RS> "I think we got the social and moral issues on the front burner. But while
 RS> we have made progress ... we have not won any of the battles yet," Falwell
 RS> told Reuters in an interview.

What makes you think he will be successful? This article says his influence has
eroded.

 RS> "It is a long road back. We are at least one U.S. Supreme Court Justice
 RS> short of a socially conservative court," Falwell said on the sidelines of
 RS> an evangelist conference in Dallas.
 RS> People like Falwell are, to my mind, far more of a danger to liberty and
 RS> freedom here in the US than any number of Al Qaida terrorists. After all,
 RS> the chances of a member of Al Qaeda ever sitting in the Oval Office are
 RS> pretty slim whereas Falwell and the like have serious political clout on
 RS> the far right of the Republican Party. Serious GOP presidential contenders
 RS> like John McCain and Mitt Romney are already courting Falwell and other
 RS> dominionists for their support.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

So, if either of them win in 2008 it will mean they have become a "far right"
Republican -- the "far right" has won?

 RS> What does their granting that support to the dominionist religious right
 RS> entail? Well, some progress towards their agenda, of course. And they
 RS> describe that agenda in their own words far better than I ever could.
 RS> Theocracy Watch has collected many of their utterances.

"Theocracy Watch?" Are you serious?

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

 RS> D. James Kennedy, Pastor of Coral Ridge Ministries, �Reclaiming America
for
 RS> Christ� conference in February, 2005. Our job is to reclaim America for
 RS> Christ, whatever the cost. As the vice regents of God, we are to exercise
 RS> godly dominion and influence over our neighborhoods, our schools, our
 RS> government, our literature and arts, our sports arenas, our entertainment
 RS> media, our news media, our scientific endeavors � in short, over every
 RS> aspect and institution of human society.

Never heard of D. James Kennedy. What exactly does reclaiming America for
Christ mean to you?

 RS> Christian Coalition field director, Bill Thomson, You�re going to run
over
 RS> them. Get around them, run over the top of them, destroy them - whatever
 RS> you need to do so that God�s word is the word that is being practiced in
 RS> Congress, town halls and state legislatures. That�s your job.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Boo!

 RS> Representative John Hostetler, R-IN, Christian Coalition Speech: �When
the
 RS> courts make unconstitutional decisions, we should not enforce them,� he
 RS> told attendees. �Federal courts have no army or navy.. The court can
opine,
 RS> decide, talk about, sing, whatever it wants to do. We�re not saying they
 RS> can�t do that. At the end of the day, we�re saying the court can�t
enforce
 RS> its opinions.�

He's right. The court's job is to decide the constitutionality of any given
law. They aren't supposed to legislate from the bench. The Constitution does
not change without the amendment process. It is *NOT* a "living breathing"
document that changes with time. It means the same thing today as it did when
it was written. If that is not the case, it is not worth the parchment it is
written on.

 RS> Joseph Morecraft, pastor of the Reconstructionist Chalcedon Presbyterian
 RS> Church in Marietta, Georgia: �Nobody has the right to worship on this
 RS> planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have
 RS> the responsibility to defend anybody�s pseudo-right to worship an
idol!�

Good grief! Your copy and paste article is digging up all kinds of obscure
quotes in an attempt to prove its agenda.

 RS> Gary North, Institute for Christian Economics, �So let us be blunt about
 RS> it: we must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for
 RS> Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that
 RS> there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education,
and
 RS> no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in constructing a
 RS> Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the
 RS> religious liberty of the enemies of God.�

This is getting hilarious.

 RS> George Grant, a leading dominionist writer in �The Changing of the
Guard,
 RS> Biblical Principles for Political Action�: Christians have an
obligation, a
 RS> mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus
 RS> Christ � to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other
 RS> aspect of life and godliness. But it is dominion we are after. Not just a
 RS> voice. It is dominion we are after. Not just influence. It is dominion we
 RS> are after. Not just equal time. It is dominion we are after. World
 RS> conquest. That�s what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must
win
 RS> the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for
 RS> anything less� Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the
 RS> conquest of the land � of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies,
 RS> courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ.

 RS> Reconstructionist theologian David Chilton Our goal is world dominion
under
 RS> Christ�s lordship, a world �take over� if you will.

 RS> Jerry Falwell, 1999: �[T]hese perverted homosexuals.absolutely hate
 RS> everything that you and I and most decent, God-fearing citizens stand for.
 RS> Make no mistake. These deviants seek no less than total control and
 RS> influence in society, politics, our schools and in our exercise of free
 RS> speech and religious freedom..If we do not act now, homosexuals will own
 RS> America!�

 RS> Pat Robertson, Christian Coalition, "It�s going to be a spiritual
battle.
 RS> There will be Satanic forces�. We are not going to be coming up just
 RS> against human beings, to beat them in elections. We�re going to be
coming
 RS> up against spiritual warfare.�

 RS> David Limbaugh, �we have a right, indeed an obligation to govern.�

David Limbaugh? He's a lawyer, not a "theocrat."

 RS> Pledge recited at �Reclaiming America For Christ� conference: �I
pledge
 RS> allegiance to the Christian flag, and to the Savior for whose kingdom it
 RS> stands. One Savior, crucified, risen and coming again, with life and
 RS> liberty for all who believe.�

 RS>
http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2007/02/falwell-wants-dominionist-in-white.html



 RS> Now substitute "Allah" for "God" or "Jesus Christ," and you'll see
 RS> precisely what I mean.

You are making an intellectually lazy comparisan between Islam and
Christianity. There is *no* comparisan. Islam was built by the sword.
Christianity was built by peace.

Now don't bring up the Crusades as an example of Christianity because they were
an aberration -- an exception to the rule. Even the Spanish inquisition was an
exception to the rule. Before those two aberrations and since their end you
cannot point to any point where Christians or Christianity have espoused
violence.

 RS> If you don't, you're stupider than I thought

I couldn't care less what you thought, moron. You are one of the most
intellectually deficient people I have ever run into.

Ed

-- 
"But the safety of the people of America against dangers from
foreign force depends not only on their forbearing to give
just causes of war to other nations, but also on their placing
and continuing themselves in such a situation as not to invite
hostility or insult; for it need not be observed that there are
pretended as well as just causes of war."

-- John Jay (Federalist No. 4)


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