Text 721, 323 rader
Skriven 2007-02-11 22:29:00 av ROSS SAUER (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av ED HULETT
Ärende: Christian fascists?
===========================
ED HULETT said to ROSS SAUER...

EH> ->> You haven't a clue what fascism is, do you?

EH> RS> And you haven't a clue as to what theocracy is.

EH>That is where you are mistaken.

EH> RS> Just look at Saudi Arabia and Iran.
EH> RS> BOTH theocracies, and both fascist-type governments.

EH>What makes you think a Christian theocracy would be the same as an
EH>Islamic theocracy?

Two sides of the same coin.

EH> RS> But let's take a look at back here in the US.

EH>Okay, let's look.

EH> RS> Very powerful figures in the U.S. ruling class are proponents of
EH>this

EH>The US "ruling class?" Are you serious?

There are a few in the US who feel they are the "ruling class."
The Kennedy and Bush families come to mind.

EH> RS> program. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, one of Bush�s
EH>favorites and
EH> RS> possible replacement for Chief Justice Rehnquist, has written
EH> RS> that "government...derives its moral authority from God. It is
EH>the �minister of
EH> RS> God� with powers to �revenge,� to �execute wrath,�
EH>including even wrath by
EH> RS> the sword."

EH>Good grief. Scalia didn't replace Rehnquist and the USSC does not
EH>legislate. Your copy and paste is from an old screed.

Is Scalia still on the Supreme Court?

EH> RS> In a speech at Christian fundamentalist Bob Jones University,
EH> RS> former Attorney General John Ashcroft declared, "Unique among
EH>the nations, America
EH> RS> recognized the source of our character as being godly and
EH> RS> eternal, not being civic and temporal....we have no King but
EH> RS> Jesus." He called the separation of church and state "a wall of
EH> RS> religious oppression."

EH>The so-called "wall of seperation of church and state" is a limit on
EH>government alone. The actual words show this to be true, "Congress
EH>shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
EH>prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

EH>The way you idiots want it is to repress any and all outward
EH>expressions of religios faith primarily from Christians.

That's bullshit and you know it.
What we want is the ending of coercive and government-funded religion.

EH>You point at Saudi Arabia and ask if we want a theocracy like their's
EH>while ignoring the differences between Christianity and Islam.

EH> RS> A leading organizer of this movement writes that "Christians
EH> RS> have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy
EH> RS> responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ � to have
EH> RS> dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect of
EH> RS> life and godliness.... World conquest. That�s what Christ has
EH> RS> commissioned us to accomplish." (George Grant, The Changing of
EH> RS> the Guard, Biblical Principles for Political Action , pp. 50- 51

EH>Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

EH>Who is George Grant?

"Christian" author.

EH> RS> Falwell Wants Dominionist In White House

EH>Falwell! Boo!

So John McCain isn't kissing up to Falwell?

EH> RS> Reuters yesterday had a very interesting look at Christian
EH> RS> dominionist Jerry Falwell and his ongoing campaign to create a
EH> RS> theocratic state in America.

EH>Good grief, you are obsessed with Falwell and Robertson. They don't
EH>have the political power you try to give them.

They have influence.
Right now James Dobson and his "Focus on the Family" have the upper hand 
in political influence among the GOP.

EH> RS> DALLAS (Reuters) - His influence may be diminished but his zeal
EH> RS> is undaunted. Evangelist Jerry Falwell is on a mission to keep a
EH> RS> like-minded Republican in the White House and get at least one
EH> RS> more conservative judge on the Supreme Court.

EH>So, to you idiots, a Republican is the same as a theocrat?

See above?
"...keep a like-minded Republican in the White House..."

EH> RS> Despite his years in the trenches of America's culture wars,
EH>Falwell -- who
EH> RS> founded the Moral Majority political movement in 1979 and helped
EH>propel the
EH> RS> rise of the religious right -- said a major victory in his
EH> RS> broader crusade to restore the country's moral righteousness has
EH> RS> so far eluded him.

EH>___________________________________^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
EH>^

EH> RS> With abortion still legal, prayer banned in public schools and
EH> RS> pornography rife, he sees a long struggle ahead. For now, he is
EH> RS> focusing on voter registration drives and rallying the faithful
EH> RS> with his eyes on the twin prizes of the 2008 presidential
EH> RS> election and control of the Supreme Court.

EH>And this scares you how?

EH> RS> Some of his statements -- he famously blamed gays and lesbians
EH> RS> for provoking the September 11 attacks -- have eroded some of
EH> RS> his conservative support base. But he remains a rallying figure
EH> RS> on the far U.S. right.

EH>Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

EH>The "far U.S. right." Boo!

REALLY intelligent answer. (sarcasm off)

EH> RS> "I think we got the social and moral issues on the front burner.
EH> RS> But while we have made progress ... we have not won any of the
EH> RS> battles yet," Falwell told Reuters in an interview.

EH>What makes you think he will be successful? This article says his
EH>influence has eroded.

He doesn't give up, in case you haven't noticed.

EH> RS> "It is a long road back. We are at least one U.S. Supreme Court
EH> RS> Justice short of a socially conservative court," Falwell said on
EH> RS> the sidelines of an evangelist conference in Dallas.
EH> RS> People like Falwell are, to my mind, far more of a danger to
EH> RS> liberty and freedom here in the US than any number of Al Qaida
EH> RS> terrorists. After all, the chances of a member of Al Qaeda ever
EH> RS> sitting in the Oval Office are pretty slim whereas Falwell and
EH> RS> the like have serious political clout on the far right of the
EH> RS> Republican Party. Serious GOP presidential contenders like John
EH> RS> McCain and Mitt Romney are already courting Falwell and other
EH> RS> dominionists for their support.

EH>Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

EH>So, if either of them win in 2008 it will mean they have become a
EH>"far right" Republican -- the "far right" has won?

In a way, yes.

EH> RS> What does their granting that support to the dominionist
EH> RS> religious right entail? Well, some progress towards their
EH> RS> agenda, of course. And they describe that agenda in their own
EH> RS> words far better than I ever could. Theocracy Watch has
EH> RS> collected many of their utterances.

EH>"Theocracy Watch?" Are you serious?

EH>Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

EH> RS> D. James Kennedy, Pastor of Coral Ridge Ministries,
EH>�Reclaiming America for
EH> RS> Christ� conference in February, 2005. Our job is to reclaim
EH> RS> America for Christ, whatever the cost. As the vice regents of
EH> RS> God, we are to exercise godly dominion and influence over our
EH> RS> neighborhoods, our schools, our government, our literature and
EH> RS> arts, our sports arenas, our entertainment media, our news
EH> RS> media, our scientific endeavors � in short, over every aspect
EH> RS> and institution of human society.

EH>Never heard of D. James Kennedy. What exactly does reclaiming America
EH>for Christ mean to you?

Look at that title again.
Why does America need to be "reclaimed" for their version of Christ?
Obviously, so they can get back the power and influence they once had.

James Kennedy took a lot of flack just last year, when he put out a DVD 
that was summed up in one sentence:
"No Darwin, no Hitler."

EH> RS> Christian Coalition field director, Bill Thomson, You�re going
EH>to run over
EH> RS> them. Get around them, run over the top of them, destroy them -
EH> RS> whatever you need to do so that God�s word is the word that is
EH> RS> being practiced in Congress, town halls and state legislatures.
EH> RS> That�s your job.

EH>Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

EH>Boo!

EH> RS> Representative John Hostetler, R-IN, Christian Coalition Speech:
EH>�When the
EH> RS> courts make unconstitutional decisions, we should not enforce
EH> RS> them,� he told attendees. �Federal courts have no army or
EH>navy.. The court can opine,
EH> RS> decide, talk about, sing, whatever it wants to do. We�re not
EH> RS> saying they can�t do that. At the end of the day, we�re
EH>saying the court can�t enforce
EH> RS> its opinions.�

EH>He's right. The court's job is to decide the constitutionality of any
EH>given law. They aren't supposed to legislate from the bench. The
EH>Constitution does not change without the amendment process. It is
EH>*NOT* a "living breathing" document that changes with time. It means
EH>the same thing today as it did when it was written. If that is not
EH>the case, it is not worth the parchment it is written on.

Except Hostetler stated SC rulings against coercive religion was 
"unconstitutional."

EH> RS> Joseph Morecraft, pastor of the Reconstructionist Chalcedon
EH> RS> Presbyterian Church in Marietta, Georgia: �Nobody has the
EH> RS> right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And
EH> RS> therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend
EH>anybody�s pseudo-right to worship an idol!�

EH>Good grief! Your copy and paste article is digging up all kinds of
EH>obscure quotes in an attempt to prove its agenda.

Georgia politicians, including possible 2008 presidential candidate Newt 
Gingrich, actively court Reverend Morecaft.

EH> RS> Gary North, Institute for Christian Economics, �So let us be
EH> RS> blunt about it: we must use the doctrine of religious liberty to
EH> RS> gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a
EH> RS> generation of people who know that there is no religious
EH>neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and
EH> RS> no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in
EH> RS> constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order
EH> RS> which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of
EH> RS> God.�

EH>This is getting hilarious.

EH> RS> George Grant, a leading dominionist writer in �The Changing of
EH>the Guard,
EH> RS> Biblical Principles for Political Action�: Christians have an
EH>obligation, a
EH> RS> mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land
EH> RS> for Jesus Christ � to have dominion in civil structures, just
EH> RS> as in every other aspect of life and godliness. But it is
EH> RS> dominion we are after. Not just a voice. It is dominion we are
EH> RS> after. Not just influence. It is dominion we are after. Not just
EH> RS> equal time. It is dominion we are after. World conquest.
EH>That�s what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win
EH> RS> the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle
EH> RS> for anything less� Thus, Christian politics has as its primary
EH> RS> intent the conquest of the land � of men, families,
EH> RS> institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the
EH> RS> Kingdom of Christ.

EH> RS> Reconstructionist theologian David Chilton Our goal is world
EH>dominion under
EH> RS> Christ�s lordship, a world �take over� if you will.

EH> RS> Jerry Falwell, 1999: �[T]hese perverted homosexuals.absolutely
EH> RS> hate everything that you and I and most decent, God-fearing
EH> RS> citizens stand for. Make no mistake. These deviants seek no less
EH> RS> than total control and influence in society, politics, our
EH> RS> schools and in our exercise of free speech and religious
EH> RS> freedom..If we do not act now, homosexuals will own America!�

EH> RS> Pat Robertson, Christian Coalition, "It�s going to be a
EH>spiritual battle.
EH> RS> There will be Satanic forces�. We are not going to be coming
EH> RS> up just against human beings, to beat them in elections. We�re
EH>going to be coming
EH> RS> up against spiritual warfare.�

EH> RS> David Limbaugh, �we have a right, indeed an obligation to
EH> RS> govern.�

EH>David Limbaugh? He's a lawyer, not a "theocrat."

A lawyer can be a theocrat.
David Limbaugh wrote a book full of "us Christians are being 
persecuted!" hysteria.

EH> RS> Pledge recited at �Reclaiming America For Christ�
EH>conference: �I pledge
EH> RS> allegiance to the Christian flag, and to the Savior for whose
EH> RS> kingdom it stands. One Savior, crucified, risen and coming
EH> RS> again, with life and liberty for all who believe.�

EH>http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2007/02/falwell-wants-dominionist-
EH>in-white.h tml

EH> RS> Now substitute "Allah" for "God" or "Jesus Christ," and you'll
EH> RS> see precisely what I mean.

EH>You are making an intellectually lazy comparisan between Islam and
EH>Christianity. There is *no* comparisan. Islam was built by the sword.
EH>Christianity was built by peace.

The early church was based on coercion.

EH>Now don't bring up the Crusades as an example of Christianity because
EH>they were an aberration -- an exception to the rule. Even the Spanish
EH>inquisition was an exception to the rule. Before those two
EH>aberrations and since their end you cannot point to any point where
EH>Christians or Christianity have espoused violence.

So all those years from Constantine to the Renaissance had no torture, 
murders, jailings, etc?

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