Text 8054, 277 rader
Skriven 2006-11-18 21:41:42 av Maurice Kinal (1:140/13.1)
   Kommentar till text 8052 av mark lewis (1:3634/12.0)
Ärende: compress.cfg
====================
Hey mark!

Nov 18 15:40 06, mark lewis wrote to Maurice Kinal:

 ml> i didn't know any better when i started... to this day, it makes me 
 ml> no never mind as to what type of configuration file is used so long 
 ml> as the tool does what it is supposed to do...

Yes but how do you know for sure if it is doing what you think it is doing if
you can't read the configuration and aren't sure if the actual tool is reading
the configuration the same way?  Also, if we're talking about ye ol' style
serial protocols much of that is humanly readable anyhow, other then a few
control codes which are easily enough looked up.  There aren't that many
control codes which made it really easy to write both ends, BBS and client
apps.  Given all the silliness that happened back then wrt serial
communications is it any wonder that I for one would rather not replicate it
now that it matters little, if at all?

Personally I prefer ye ol' style of BBSing but that doesn't mean I have to
sucker myself into all the crap that leaked in over the years.  Compatibilty
with other OS's is a nonissue methinks.  It ALWAYS has been and I see no good
reason to replicate the mistakes of the past.  I refuse to.

 ml> in my experiance, type 2+ has been the most used all over fidonet but 
 ml> i've not gone and taken a poll... in some cases, it is rather hard to 
 ml> ferret info such as this out :)

No doubt about that.  From my observations it seems to me that the only thing
that should matter is the method of transporting a common raw format between
two machines no matter what the connectivity is.  As to offlining anything is
possible and I see no good reason to get married to formats that were poor wrt
to both hosts (BBS's) and clients right out of the gate.  This isn't rocket
science and I don't plan to make it so.  Online messaging it seems to me would
be better if users just used whatever they have available and that is a http
browser these days, usually IE or at least around here locally.  It is doable
without any need for speciallized software from the user's perspective.  They
shouldn't even have to concern themselves with archiving, compression,
compatibilty, etc. since that is the server's (BBS) job.

 ml> i fail to see why not... anyone can use fidonet formats any time they 
 ml> want...

I agree.

 ml> secure messaging... never mind that the transportation is now down 
 ml> via various means over the internet... the end result is secure 
 ml> communications ;)

Sounds okay.  Here it would be a wireless network (at the moment) and the
server takes care of the rest.  However at the moment I require a filter to
eliminate the incoming zip format which was never wanted in the first place. 
Fortunetly busyboz has a builtin unzip which does a nice job of that.  The
problem with that is it shouldn't be needed at all and never should have been
an issue ***EVER***.  The fact that it is speaks volumes about what is
currently wrong.  My vote goes to ditching the need and sitting back and
watching it all die a horrible and miserable death.  :-)

 ml> bbs'? i am the only one that i know of in my area... FWIW: i am also 
 ml> now the network coordinator of the eastern _half_ of north 
 ml> carolina...

What do they all think?

 ml> coverage... i only list three or four in my netseg... that's not 
 ml> counting any that are not members of fidonet, of course ;)

Right.  Understood.

 MK>> commandline (multimedia stuff which I hardly use but it is nice to
 MK>> have every now and then).

 ml> so i've been seeing over the years of reading your messages ;)

And it all works great without the need for a GUI.  Neat eh?  People who see it
all in action are always amazed but it scares them as they don't understand it
or how it works.  No matter as I do it for myself and what I want.  It all
works out for the best.  I like it.

 MK>> nearly what I would term 'widespread and in more use' by any
 MK>> stretch of the imagination. 

 ml> please reread my original... it looks like you have taken my 
 ml> statement backwards ;)

Then we agree.  :-)

 ml> what tosser do they run?

None.  They don't seem to want one and I am sure they don't need one.

 ml> it is likely that you can send a simple 
 ml> areafix message and tell the tosser to switch you over to raw 
 ml> packets... FWIW: i also dot see a MN flag on your nodelist entry... 
 ml> if you want nothing but raw PKTs, at least get that flag set ;)

It doesn't matter.  It would make absolutely no difference at this end.  Sure
go ahead and set it to what you think it should be set with.  Nothing here will
complain.  Besides I am seriously thinking of dropping out of the nodelist.  I
see no reason that I need to be in there.  Do you?

 ml> that's one of the first places i'd start ;)

Not me.  It won't make a difference.  What do you suggest I should have for
flags?  I am receptive if it could make a REAL difference.  Otherwise I see no
reason for the hassel it would cause.

 ml> placing that flag on your entry if you asked for it and i were your 
 ml> NC... too bad you're not a member of my net, eh? O:) bob seaborn 
 ml> shouldn't have any problems with doing such, either O:) O:) O:)

Do you want me to be?  If we're talking making some progress I'd be inclined to
take up the challenge and help pave the way.  I am not interested at all in
keeping abandonware going.  What for?

 ml> gecho is likely bob seaborn, right?

Yep.

 ml> well, i _know_ for a /fact/ that 
 ml> gecho can do raw pkts... erm... you pull your stuff via POTS or 
 ml> internet?

Internet.  Currently connecting via binkd.  Can't say I care much for it
especially considering it is 24/7 and really doesn't need to be.

 ml> you can get your mail from anywhere you can make a deal 
 ml> with... all your mail 'cepting local stuffs, of course...

Nothing local to worry about.

 ml> as will the point, for the most part... at least, it'll have to 
 ml> change boss node addresses... too bad you don't like any of that old 
 ml> "DOS think" stuff...

Never did, even when I used DOS.  I preferred my own stuff although I like
Linux WAY better as it saved (still does) a ton of reworking.  Every archiver I
saw in DOS world wasn't worth anything to me personally and never assured
compatibilty across the board.  All the serious archives I dealt with back then
were all noncompressed and the header was ALWAYS humanly readable and ALL the
information within that header ALWAYS contained exactly the information
required to successfully extract the data no matter what the data was.  I could
easily write a program or script in DOS to deal with it despite the fact it was
never DOS to start, or even end, with.  I can't say the same for Fido which is
too bad really.  I think a change is long overdue but we'll see.

 ml> i believe i still have some of the original 
 ml> point packages laying around... OMX was one, IIRC... i think i still 
 ml> have a copy of it... 

I already have more then what I want or need but thank you for the offer.  What
I'd like to do (maybe) is get the neighbour to start using the wireless
connection to facillitate both offlining and onlining wrt using what he has
available and we'll see where that ends up.  I think it is extremely doable but
right now he is distracted with some wireless source he thinks he can improve
upon.  We'll see ... maybe.  :-)

 ml> sure beats the whacked together stuff i've seen in more recent years 
 ml> that's been done with terminate, telix and other terminal comms 
 ml> programs and their scripts...

I haven't seen any of that stuff in ages.

 ml> well, i can't tell from the nodelist who you connect to so there's no 
 ml> way i can ask ;) FWIW: i know there is a gzip for m$ oriented 
 ml> machines because i used to run it when i ran waffle bbs and played 
 ml> with the uucp stuff... i'm sure there's also a tar but that's really 
 ml> overkill for ftn pkt files since they are already "archives"...

I agree.  As for gzip I am not sure but I see no need for any third party
archiver, even tar which I do use and want.  I think those types of things can
be left up to whoever plans to use whatever locally.  Anything networked
requires compatibilty across the board no matter what.

 MK>> What is wrong with pppd?  I haven't used it in over a decade now
 MK>> but it used to work.

 ml> m o d e m  ...  linux compatible modem... gotta have one of those 
 ml> before pppd can even be played with, right??

Externals (serial) worked great.  I always though, and still do, that pci has
nothing to do with serial ports and putting a modem on there is a total waste
of a pci slot.  I never bought one of those thank goodness but have looked at a
few ages ago and decided then not to ever go there.  It worked out great.

 MK>> I used to.  Not much of a cook anymore.

 ml> well, the point is that there's still a lot of offline reader 
 ml> usage... this is also one of those "cutting yourself off" things i 
 ml> was speaking of earlier ;)

Yes but in that case only the BBS they are offlining with has to worry about
them.  I can still read/write to those echoes without succumbing to those silly
formats.  Right?

 MK>> Nobody like that in this neck of the woods.

 ml> no but there's a lot of other stuff out there that is in the exact 
 ml> same boat for the exact same reason ;)

For sure!!!  That isn't an issue to me personally and it never, and continues
to be, had anything to do with me.  When they have problems my answer always
is, "Talk to Bill!"  :-)

I haven't had those problems and I don't ever want to.

 ml> before that fall over date gets here... but you already know all 
 ml> this, haha...

Right.  Another nonissue.

 ml> well, basically, ya takes linux and enables modem dialup to bash and 
 ml> ya gives'em the command line... there ya go!

I call that telnetd or sshd or netpipes depending on what the desired outcome
is and what interface.  Been playing with dropbear lately.

 ml> that's waffle :)

Ah!  Already lots of things here that can do that.
  
 ml> there's mail for email...

I am currently using procmail and fetchmail with a scripted vim as the user
(me) frontend.  I don't get that much email but it is handy to have every now
and then.

 ml> rn for news...

Never cared for newsgroups.  I don't even like the one on www.minimalinux.org
which is a php based messaging thing I am forced to deal with.  Thank goodness
I don't have to administrate it despite being called an administrator there. 
Heh, heh.

 ml> sz and rz for file transfers 

That has been broken for years now.  I certainly am not going to do anything
about being compatible with that.  What for?  Personally ftp is the bread and
butter protocol for me and has been for quite some time now.  Have yet to see a
better way.  wget is okay and gets usage here but it is limited as to what ftp
can do instead.  I do have wget handy and do use it.

 ml> but you have to get into the proper directory with "cd this" and "cd 
 ml> that"...

Can be scripted but doesn't matter since it is broken.  ftp is better and
always has been.  It also can be scripted which makes it flexible and could be
robotized if wanted and needed to be.

 MK>> Zero, ziltch, nada.

 ml> someone's using a mailer... you're getting mail via fidonet, ain't 
 ml> ya? aren't they local??

Nobody local.  All the fido I see here is not local to me.

 ml> that's why many of those "DOS think" tools were written... why just 
 ml> use tar when you need to compress it, too?

tar isn't compression.  I don't use compression that much.  If I were I'd be
inclined to use gzip but the packages I create for myself are usually bzipped. 
I was (on hold at the moment) working on a bash script for all my package
creation needs and bzip is the default compression method there.

 ml> why not just put it all 
 ml> into one package? why have a mailer, a tosser, a message editor, an 
 ml> areafix tool and a filefix tool? why not just put them all together 
 ml> into one package and use one tool?? hehehe...

That goes against my Unixie upbringing.  BLASPHEMY!!!  :-)

Do one thing and do it well, comes to mind.

Life is good,
Maurice

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0
 * Origin: The Pointy Stick Society XXV - Almost there (1:140/13.1)