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Text 6106, 303 rader
Skriven 2005-07-16 10:11:10 av Rich (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 6099 av Geo (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: eeye's irresponsible self-serving behavior
======================================================
From: "Rich" <@>

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   I find eeye's behavior reprehensible for all the vendors for which =
they provide exploits to the public.  I would find it so regardless of = my
employer.  You pretend there is some relationship that does not exist = and
even if it did it wouldn't be with me.

Rich

  "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:42d93a04@w3.nls.net...
  and nobody cares when an employee of the manufacturer of the flawed =
product bitches about the people exposing the flaws. Eeye does not need = you
to excuse them.

  Geo.
    "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d88a08@w3.nls.net...
       eeye's irresponsible self-serving actions are not excused by =
anyone else's actions good or bad, particularly when you make bad = analogies.

    Rich

      "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d83d33$1@w3.nls.net...
      eeye is not posting instructions on how to kill computer users, =
they are posting details of flaws in consumer product.

      And I picked the SMB flaw as an example because it's the kind of =
flaw that's likely to be the next worm vector.

      As for the question of eeye providing protection and at the same =
time providing details of a flaw, how did you feel about the details of = that
bicycle lock that could be opened with a ball point pen? Did you = have an
issue with those details being released on the national news = because I
thought that was a good thing. It showed the public just how = piss poor a lock
that junk was. I would however imagine the lock = manufacturer has an attitude
similar to yours, that the information = never should have been released and I
would imagine they would use the = same bs arguments you are using.

      Consumers have a right to know the details of the flaws found in =
consumer products. Be it a kids car seat, a bicycle lock, software, a = circuit
breaker, their cars, whatever.

      Geo.
        "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d82aee@w3.nls.net...
           Do you really believe that your doors and windows protect you =
from outright attack?  If so you are surely going to be sorry.  You = escape
harm simply because you one attacks you.  Post instructions on = how to do so
and thereby lower the threshold and you will increase the = likelihood of
attack.  If someone like eeye came to you and said that = they would sell you
protection and at the same time provided attackers = the information they need,
how you would feel about that extortion?

           Where do you get the idea that detailed instructions are =
missing?  Maybe the description isn't sufficient for you but I assure = you
that it is sufficient for others.  And this example, which I'm sure = you
picked because you thought it weak on details, is not = representitive.  If you
want to demonstrate that they do not cause the = great harm that they do you
will need to show that they never do this = not that there exists a single
instance where you thought they did not.

        Rich

          "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d822d0@w3.nls.net...
          First off, if the security of my home was compromised by a =
flaw in a consumer product I would fully support the posting of the = details
of that flaw.

          Second, the detailed exploit instructions are not there, only =
a flaw description is there and only that description is what I and = others
want access to. I believe the attached is the detailed exploit = instructions
and they are only for a DOS not for the remote root = exploit. Of course since
you claim this is already available to all of = us at the eeye URL I linked to
you shouldn't have an issue with me = posting it here, huh?

          Geo.
            "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d7d7c8@w3.nls.net...
               Such bullshit.  It's not just that you are paranoid, you =
are being silly.  Please post the detailed instructions for anyone to = break
into your home and kill your wife and family.  You shouldn't keep = this
information exclusive to you.  Others may find this useful to = protect
themselves.  If it puts your family at risk, so what.  = "Information" like
this should be free for all.

               As for the eeye press release to which you refer, it sure =
does provide detailed instructions.  It may be that you don't recognize = the
terminology but it is there, specific, and detailed.

            Rich

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I find eeye's behavior =
reprehensible=20
for all the vendors for which they provide exploits to the public.&nbsp; = I
would=20
find it so regardless of my employer.&nbsp; You pretend there is some=20
relationship that does not exist and even if it did it wouldn't be with=20
me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote=20
  in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:42d93a04@w3.nls.net">news:42d93a04@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and nobody cares when an employee of =
the=20
  manufacturer of the flawed product bitches about the people exposing =
the=20
  flaws. Eeye does not need you to excuse them.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42d88a08@w3.nls.net">news:42d88a08@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; eeye's irresponsible =
self-serving=20
    actions are not excused by anyone else's actions good or bad, =
particularly=20
    when you make bad analogies.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
      wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:42d83d33$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d83d33$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>eeye is not posting instructions =
on how to=20
      kill computer users, they are posting details of flaws in consumer =

      product.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And I picked the SMB flaw as an =
example=20
      because it's the kind of flaw that's&nbsp;likely to be the next =
worm=20
      vector.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for the question of eeye =
providing=20
      protection and at the same time providing details of a flaw, how =
did you=20
      feel about the details of that bicycle lock that could be opened =
with a=20
      ball point pen? Did you have an issue with those details being =
released on=20
      the national news because I thought that was a good thing. It =
showed the=20
      public just how piss poor a lock that junk was. I would however =
imagine=20
      the lock manufacturer has an attitude similar to yours, that the=20
      information never should have been released and I would imagine =
they would=20
      use the same bs arguments you are using.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Consumers have a right to know =
the details of=20
      the flaws found in consumer products. Be it a kids car seat, a =
bicycle=20
      lock, software, a circuit breaker, their cars, =
whatever.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
        =
href=3D"news:42d82aee@w3.nls.net">news:42d82aee@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Do you really =
believe that=20
        your doors and windows protect you from outright attack?&nbsp; =
If so you=20
        are surely going to be sorry.&nbsp; You escape harm simply =
because you=20
        one attacks you.&nbsp; Post instructions on how to do so and =
thereby=20
        lower the threshold and you will increase the likelihood of=20
        attack.&nbsp; If someone like eeye came to you and said that =
they would=20
        sell you protection and at the same time provided attackers the=20
        information they need, how you would feel about that=20
        extortion?</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Where do you get =
the idea that=20
        detailed instructions are missing?&nbsp; Maybe the description =
isn't=20
        sufficient for you but I assure you that it is sufficient for=20
        others.&nbsp; And this example, which I'm sure you picked =
because you=20
        thought it weak on details, is not representitive.&nbsp; If you =
want to=20
        demonstrate that they do not cause the great harm that they do =
you will=20
        need to show that they never do this not that there exists a =
single=20
        instance where you thought they did not.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
          href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote =
in message=20
          <A=20
          =
href=3D"news:42d822d0@w3.nls.net">news:42d822d0@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First off, if the security of =
my home was=20
          compromised by a flaw in a consumer product I would fully =
support the=20
          posting of the details of that flaw.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Second, the&nbsp;detailed =
exploit=20
          instructions are not there, only a flaw description is there =
and only=20
          that description is what I and others want access to. I =
believe the=20
          attached is the&nbsp;detailed exploit&nbsp;instructions and =
they are=20
          only for a DOS not for the remote root exploit. Of course =
since you=20
          claim this is already available to all of us&nbsp;at the eeye =
URL I=20
          linked to you shouldn't have an issue with me posting it here, =

          huh?</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
            <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
            =
href=3D"news:42d7d7c8@w3.nls.net">news:42d7d7c8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Such =
bullshit.&nbsp; It's=20
            not just that you are paranoid, you are being silly.&nbsp; =
Please=20
            post the detailed instructions for anyone to break into your =
home=20
            and kill your wife and family.&nbsp; You shouldn't keep this =

            information exclusive to you.&nbsp; Others may find this =
useful to=20
            protect themselves.&nbsp; If it puts your family at risk, so =

            what.&nbsp; "Information" like this should be free for=20
            all.</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; As for the =
eeye press=20
            release to which you refer, it sure does provide detailed=20
            instructions.&nbsp; It may be that you don't recognize the=20
            terminology but it is there, specific, and =
detailed.</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
        =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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