Text 7523, 243 rader
Skriven 2005-01-17 03:29:56 av John Hull (1:123/789.0)
Kommentar till text 7469 av Björn Forsström (2:203/614.61)
Ärende: The CIA torture plane
=============================
Björn Forsström -> John Hull wrote:
BF>>> I would even believe it if it was pro-American but nothing much
BF> is. And
BF>>> when you finally does something good as sending the Navy to Thailand,
BF>>> they don't deserve it....... That's what I call building bridges
BF> between
BF>>> countries...eh?
JH>> They don't.
BF> Why the hell is it then so important for you to free a whole country
BF> filled with terrorists? And a new CIA report said that it's even more
terrorists
BF> there now then ever before.
Do you EVER engage your brain before you speak? Do you get it that all but a
very small percentage of the Iraqi people are happy we are there, that are
GRATEFUL we overthrew Saddam? Do you get it at all that the remaining few are
the left-over thugs from Saddam's regime who are trying to regain their power?
Do you get it at all that because Islamic terrorism is using Iraq as a focus
for all their efforts to defeat the forces of freedom, at both the political
level and the individual level?
I know you've been told that 95% of the terrorists is Iraq right now are
imports from Iran, Syria, Egypt, and other Islamic countries. I know you have
heard that they are allied with Osama bin Laden, the number one most wanted
terrorist in the world. Are you really trying to tell us you're stupid enough
to believe they are there for the benefit of the average Iraqi citizen?
JH>> It takes a heap of gall to stand there and take our aid and
JH>> our assistance - which was freely given mind you - and then bitch
BF> because
JH>> it was delivered by Marines who were armed. What the hell is the
BF> matter
JH>> with them? Do they think the Marines are going to take over their
BF> piss
JH>> ant country?
BF> Can they have Iraq in mind?
If that's what they think, you can add stupidity to the list along with
ungrateful.
BF>>>>> Btw. I saw a documentary on History Channel the other day. Made
BF> by both
BF>>>>> the English and the Americans about why America joined WWII.
EH>>>> The History Channel isn't the perveyer of truth. I have seen several
EH>>>> shows that are not accurate.
BF> But the video from Malaysia when the people cheered after 9/11 is
accurate?
BF> It must be since it's been showed on American TV.
BF> You know, I can take my videocamera and film a crowd of 5,000 Swedes
BF> when we
BF> scores against England in soccer and say that this is how we reacted
BF> 9/11 and
BF> you would believe it!!!!
BF>>> And you know this because........you were at the scene when it
BF> happend?
JH>> We know this because we pay attention, and we have other sources to
BF> verify
JH>> facts. In any case, it wasn't as much the History Channel that
BF> made the
JH>> error as it was whatever independent documentary filmmaker made the
BF> error.
JH>> The HC puts out bids for films and the independent producers and
JH>> documentarians make them and then sell them to the HC. Same way Sears
JH>> gets their appliances to sell. The point however, is that we don't
BF> just
JH>> take everything at face value.
BF> But you did believe that video from Malaysia. Have you verified that it
BF> not was
BF> taken during gunthreat? Have you verified that all of the Malaysian
BF> people think bad of USA?
We never said ALL Malaysians think bad of the US. YOU said that. By the way,
I never mentioned Malaysia. *I* said Indonesia as I recall. That tells me you
were lying like a dog when you said you hadn't seen anything such footage on
the news.
Have you verified anything? Where you at the scen when it happend?
BF> think about if it was a video made by a pro-American that wanted
BF> you to see what you WANT to see. If that's how it works
BF> with HC, why couldn't this happend with the video from Malaysia?
Because the video from Malaysia was newswire footage, not a documentary.
JH>> Same reason anybody lies. They have an agenda that they think
BF> supercedes
JH>> the truth, that justifies telling the lie.
BF> The same as with N379P?
BF>>>>> FDR didn't even respond to Japan and that pissed them off so they
BF>>>>> atacked Pearl Harbour. The day after the attack when Hitler
BF> heard about
BF>>>>> it HE declared war against USA.
JH>> As I told you, FDR tried to provoke a Japanese attack for two years
BF> prior
JH>> to Pearl Harbor. That's documented in a number of books. They
BF> finally
JH>> did attack, but not where we wanted or expected them to.
BF> Why would he provoke a attack from Japan?
BF> Just so he would have an excuse to invade like what happend in Iraq?
BF> If that's the case, why are you whining?
God, you are so incredibly ignorant about history, its pointless to even
discuss anything with you.
EH>>>> Balony! Gremany and Japan had an agreement long before Japan
BF> attacked
EH>>>> Pearl. Germany declared war on the US because they and Japan had
BF> a pact
EH>>>> that if the US attacked either one the other would declare war.
BF> Germany
EH>>>> used Japan's attack as a sign that the US would soon be
BF> participating in
EH>>>> the European front.
BF>>> And how do you prove that?
JH>> Because its documented history, you idiot.
BF> And when I say it's documented that N379P was here picking up Egyptians
BF> and flew them to Egypt you don't believe it.
Documented by whom? YOU? Some Swedish TV talking head? Get real. There is a
hell of a difference between events in WWII that have been studied and
corroborated by scholars for over fifty years - documented facts - and what you
call real facts just because some TV report said it was so. Or are you trying
to make yourself into a greater authority than the hundreds of historians
around the world who have documented WWII?
BF> I must say that you are having a wierd way of believing things but I
BF> didn't expect
BF> anything else from you.
BF> It's the American way and screw the rest.
No, what you can't stand is that the American way blows all the smoke and BS
out of the air, so you can see what is really going on. You are either to
scared to admit it, or too stupid to accept it. It upsets the cozy little
scenario you've built up over the years about how America works, and what
America stands for. You waltzed into this echo figuring to show everybody how
superior you were as a Swede to us poor, misguided colonials, and we responded
by running over your theory with an M1 Abrams tank! What it all boils down to
is that the rest of the world needs America a hell of a lot more than America
needs YOU!
BF>>>>> This totally changes the version you have been given me that USA
BF> came
BF>>>>> running to help Europe. Of course you did, Hitler had decleared
BF> war to
BF>>>>> USA.
JH>> We can't help that your understanding of history is flawed.
BF> We can't help that your understanding of the truth is flawed.
As I said, "You can't handle the truth!" And, you wouldn't know it if it came
up and kicked you in the nuts.
JH>> Not in any action? How about all the US merchant marine sailors
BF> lost on
JH>> convoy duty prior to Germany declaring war? How about the
BF> Americans who
JH>> volunteered in the Canadian fighter squadrons and went to England
BF> to fight
JH>> the Germans? How about the guys who joined the RAF in England? What
JH>> about the Flying Tigers with Chenault in China? America was in the
BF> war
JH>> long before it was official - long before the diplomats broke off
BF> their
JH>> talks.
BF> We also have people that like to kill and be in action. Some Swedes have
BF> been
BF> fighting in Kosovo and in Serbia but they haven't done it for the
BF> Swedish gummint.
BF> They like to see themself as freedom fighters as well.
So now you're back to the "bloodthirsty Yank" crap again, eh? You are just too
predictable.
BF>>> But what you say is always the truth?
JH>> We don't lie, Bjorn. At least not the group here you're talking
BF> about.
BF> And I don't lie either but that doesn't cout.
JH>> We have nothing to gain by lying to you or anybody else. On the other
JH>> hand, you have a lot to gain by using what we tell you to
BF> counteract the
JH>> garbage and hatred and anti-American propogands that you have been
BF> fed for
JH>> years in Europe.
BF> You also have a lot to gain by listen to others and not just accuse them
BF> of beeing anti-American.
So far you haven't told me anything I don't already know - not since you got
here.
BF> America have dona a lot of good things but also a few things that isn't
BF> so good.
BF> Just as it is in every country on this earth. It's just a matter of
BF> beeing able to see
BF> the bad things as well as the good things like for example with N379P,
BF> the Oliver
BF> North buisness and what happend in Abu Greib where the Marine now have
been
BF> convicted. Shit happends so just accept it.
Just can't stand that the US is better than Sweden in almost every area, can
you? How come so many of your countrymen came to America back in the late
1800's? This country was still half raw frontier in those days, while Sweden
had been "civilized" for hundreds of years by then. I'll tell you why.
Freedom, and a fresh start away from the poverty and oppression of a Europe run
by kings and emperors and tyrants for over a thousand years. Because, in
Europe, only the aristocracy got the things that made life bearable. The
privileges of blood, of rank. Here, a man was whatever he made of himself. He
stood on his own merit, and got ahead by his own sweat and blood and tears, and
every single one of them had the opportunity to become someone of wealth and
stature regardless of his or her origin. No inherited estates, no titles, no
privilege simply because of an accident of birth.
And it is still that way, even today. Why do you think there are thousands of
people every day who will do anything to get into America, who risk everything
to get here even unto death? In times past, we had the room for all of them to
come and try their luck, but now the frontiers are gone. We are forced to
regulate our borders. But that still doesn't dim the dream of millions of
people around the world who want to come to America to be free and to have a
chance to make their dreams come true. IN SPITE OF our mistakes!
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